Look whats new from Camillus for 2001

Joel Pirela

Joel Pirela

Joined
Oct 5, 1998
Messages
464
Just look at the pictures!

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and the next ad in tactical knives:

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enjoy!


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Joel Pirela
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www.pirelabladedesign.com
 
Damn Joel, nice stuff! Guess the word is out on the Mini Talon! That was a well kept secret!
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The EDC framelock looks like a great rendition of the knife from Darrel!
 
Oh man! Very nice indeed!

I'll take one mini Talon, and one EDC please. Could you make that to go?
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Can't wait- so from now until I have one of each, I will plague this forum with this simple question.

WHEN?!

Way to go guys- looks like you've got some real winners on your hands!

Firebat

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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
All I have to say about the mini Talon is how much and when and where do I send the money to!. How long is the blade? 2.75" would be right on.
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Hey Will, any way I can pre-pay or sign up for one of the first EDC's?

Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask, right?
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Firebat



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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scott Dog:
All I have to say about the mini Talon is how much and when and where do I send the money to!. How long is the blade? 2.75" would be right on.
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</font>
Click to expand...

Scott Dog-

Squinting at the pic, it looks like the mini-Talon is 5.7" overall, blade length of 2.25".

MSRP of $220.00

Firebat




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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
continuing from the "sister topic" in the "What's New" forum ...

I really like the looks and blade shape of the EDC, but I'm disappointed at the choice blade steel (420HC). For a MSRP of $70, at least it could be something like AUS-8A or an equivalent.

I'll have to pass on this one.
 
I agree with Rhino. Good looking, but $70.00 and 420hc don't go together in my book.

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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
 
Rhino, Fudo, you gotta try it sometime. I say give these babies a go.

I got an ArcLite in 420HC, and so far I am impressed. I used to carry a Spydie in AUS8. I liked the fact that it resisted corrosion pretty well and took a wicked edge. The edge didn't hang around as long as your top end steels, true. But for the price you have to give somewhere. And in my book, you are not giving up much.

I have been carrying the ArcLite now for awhile. It came shaving sharp out of the box. I am an above average user, in my book. Mostly cut rope, cardboard, cartons, string, tape, and hose; but I do it alot. Now the knife won't shave hair, but it is still cutting just fine. By now I would have sharpened that AUS8 at least once. That Spydie lists around $75.... the ArcLite cost me $20. I'd say it was well worth my money to give this knife a go.

I fully intend to pick up the EDC, and I fully expect it will perform as well as this ArcLite. When I have both knives in hand, I will have spent as much on them as I did for the Spydie that has now found a place in my drawer. And I am absolutely positive that the steel that Will picked out will perform up to and possibly exceed the performance of the AUS8 I was using.

Go ahead and scoff. Go ahead and point at the spec sheets. Go ahead and say I don't know what I'm talking about. But before you do any of these things, please pick up one of these pieces and see for yourself. You will be as amazed as I, I suspect.
 
I'm with Velitrius on this one.

I've been as much of a steel snob as anyone in the past- yet I continue to be surprised by the Arclite I picked up. I didn't expect much out of it, but I figured, hey at 20 bucks, how bad could it be?

And as it turns out not bad at all, and I'm fairly impressed. I cleaned up the edge a bit right after I got it, then proceeded to rip through a bunch of old boxes. I figured it would be done after a few passes, but it was still doing pretty friggin well for a 20 dollar knife and "crap" steel.

Have either of you guys read Steve Harvey's review here? http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002473.html Steve brings up a great point at the end about performance per dollar. And in this case, the 420HC of the Arclite does pretty darn well, as I expect it will on the EDC.

You don't seem to like the 70 dollar price tag, but let's remember that that's MSRP. When's the last time you paid MSRP for anything?
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To each his own I guess. I think that 420HC is an adequate steel that gets a worse rap than it deserves when it's surrounded by so many other "super steels". True, the 420V on my small Apogee will clearly outperform the 420HC, yet that fact does not automatically negate any positive traits of the 420HC- specifically, the performance per dollar equation.

Firebat

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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
Folders with a GREAT lock like this a are expensive to make. All the liner lock problems go down the tubes with this knife.
Camillus's focus is on function and reliability of there CUDA products.
The camillus EDC is NOT a plastic handled knife. It has a IBl intergral lock made from stainless steel that is heat treated. Its a tank.
Its proudly made in the US. The knife has a excellent finish and a reliable lock. Its thin and easy to carry. It cuts good. You can dip it in mud , blood, crap, wash it, oil it, strop it and it works again. Nothing fancy to get all bound up about here. Steve Harvey posted about the steel and that it cuts good with Camillus's heat treat process. YES the heat treat makes a difference.
Ill be glad to make you a ti version with a 420v blade for $445.00.
Try an arclite . 20 bucks will change your mind about 420 hc. Check the steels edge holding after Camillus's PHILIP GIBBS gets done with it. This man is a first class GENIUS with heat treating. I feel you will change your mind.
Oh ye of so little faith!

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
MADD MAXX !

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 01-09-2001).]
 
Darrel;
I think that your reasoning on using 420HC in the Arclite is sound, however, the Arclite is a $20.00 hideout piece. It is a nice little knife and I have two of them. In an everyday carry knife there are much better steels at or near the same price point. The Spyderco Calypso Jr. lwt, for example. Yes, it has a frn handle, but the VG-10 blade makes up for it. I think that there is a useful point between a $445 custom and $70.00 420HC.
I'm thinking that a few bucks extra for 440C would have turned an average offering into something special.
I feel the need to point out that, unlike some members, I admit that I have not seen, nor used this knife. All I am saying is that there is some useful area between the top and the bottom and a design as good as this knife appears to be would be better served with better materials.

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Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
 
Fudo,
I hear you about needing something between the top[super steels] and the bottom end steels. The real driver on cost is whether the steel can be blanked, or whether it has to be laser cut. Usually, the steels that have to be laser cut are also MUCH harder to machine and grind. These factors drive price more than cost of the steel, although that certainly is a consideration. If we would have put a laser cut blade in the knife, it could have moved the price up 40% or more, just for 440c.

We feel 420HC offers good performance once we get done with its heat treatment. We are able to achieve 57-58 Rc, consistantly. I asked Phil Gibbs randomly check 6 ARCLITE's today[420HC]. They came in at 58,58,58,57.5,57,58 Rc. This is NOT the level of hardness folks are used to with other company's "420 stainless". We have our own , in house state of the art heat treat center, and we have done alot of work with 420HC and we are very comfortable with the consistancy of it heat treatment. I have had no problem skinning a deer and boning out the meat with a 3.25" 420HC blade ARCLITE without having to stop and resharpen. I would think this would be as hard on a blade as any 'everyday use'. Remember, blade geometry plays a big part in the cutting equation, and we have really done our homework with the ARCLITE and the EDC on that issue. The blades are flat ground and the edges are thin.

I'm NOT saying 420HC @ 58RC is wondersteel, but these knives are priced like wonderknives either. However, they are damn nice knives, if I do say so myself. DDR was wonderful to work with, and I feel he outdid himself.

Preliminary dicussions with varisous dealers have shown that this knife [EDC] will probally retail on the net for about $50. Its a FRAME LOCK guys, not a plastic lockback. There is ALOT of work in this steel frame [and tooling $$$$$], and it is worth it. The knife is solid, smooth to operate, and flat. The arc cut outs reduce weight and add traction. We are happy with it, we hope you will be to.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
I don't think Darrel would have been comfortable with the project if he thought that Camillus' 420HC was a truly deficient steel.

As to the "useful point between a $445 custom and $70.00 420HC" - well, sure. But isn't that point more like a range? The way I see it, that range would include quite a few knives of all different types of steel and prices. Or is this point singular and defined only by the Calypso Jr. ltwt.? Not to mention that the term "useful" really couldn't be more vague when speaking of knives. Useful to whom, for what, in what situation, and under what conditions?

I don't believe any forum member (save for the parties involved in it's manufacture)has claimed to have seen or used the EDC. It's not even out yet! But some of us have used the same steel (Arclite) before, so to offer an evaluation of the Camillus 420HC's performance seems wholly appropriate.

As for 440C- I personally have never used a knife in 440C that I thought was worth a darn. I've been quite surprised to hear that people would have actually preferred 440C, as I've never liked it. I bought a Spyderco Herbst when they first came out (which is an otherwise sweet knife, glad to hear rumors of it's re-release) which used 440C, and that thing couldn't hold an edge at all. Likewise, a few Bokers that have passed my way yielded the same. Which is another reason why I didn't expect much out of the 420HC- as everyone "knows" it's place on the steel food chain. Yet here it is, and while I'll freely admit it's not the best steel- it's better than I expected, and I actually think it's better than the 440C that's come my way.

Discussions like this obviously work both ways. Some will not pay $70.00 for a knife in 420HC- and that's fine. We're all a bit different that way. I might be considered different because I will summarily dismiss ANY plastic handled knife. I just don't like 'em. That's fine, too. But if I hadn't ever used a frn piece, I wouldn't be completely informed if I said "plastic handled knives and x amount of dollars don't go together in my book." (not necessarily to you fudo, you said you've used the 420HC- just an example)

Is it possible that Camillus' has found a way to raise the standard of performance in 420HC through the heat treat? According to Will and Darrel, they have. That's good enough for me.

Plus- it's just cool looking and I want one.
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Firebat


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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
If it was not such a knice design, the 420 HC would not look so bad. A style-less $35 beater in 420 HC is tolerable, though not preferred. For a knife this well designed I would have happily paid more to get a decent steel, not some super expensive super-steel, but just something a little more decent than 420HC. I like Cammilus and hope that they will come around and either put an OK steel in this knife or maybe offer an upgraded model with a better blade steel.
 
I'm not going to say another thing about the 420HC. I haven't used Camillus' 420HC, so I'm not qualified to say.

I will say that my money will go toward the mini-Talon as opposed to the Arc Lite or the EDC. Not because of DDR's designs, that's for da** sure: the Apogee is one of the two (that's 2) custom folders that I have ever seen that I would consider laying out the bucks for.

If there happens to be a special run of better steel in the EDC, you can be sure I'll lay out the bucks for it then.

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A dog at play has the mind of a wise martial arts master, a mind capable of perfect focus. - Marc Christophe

iktomi
 
I have to agree with those who say the EDC is an excellent design (poor man's Sebenza) but putting 420 steel in the blade is a marketing mistake and then asking $70 msp is almost an insult to knowledgable knife people. And don't blah, blah about the Rc factor. 420 is for $25 Paki knives and cheap knockoffs from SMKW. And yes I have had 420 knives and the performance is poor (rather have 1095 and put up with rust for that price!) There are already too many excellent knives on the market with at least 440A or aus8 for less $. Come on Camillus you can do better than that! Put some decent steel in the blade ask $90 and we can all be happy getting it for $65 by dealin'with the discounters and have a knife we can be proud to carry and get real use from it. Weldonk
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Whle I'm not claiming to be an expert on steel, I do know that 420 is (will) be the industry standard. 440a is not manufactured in the US any more. If you are getting 440a steel, it is either old or left over stock or imported from Japan. As far as the EDC is concerned, that is why it is called the EDC. Not to be specialized for one use or another but for everyday use. And with the feedback Camillus is getting about this knife, I would not be surprised if somewhere down the road, they would offer that knife in a different steel in a limited run. Just my 2 cents!

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C.R. Specialties
Your #1 Source for CUDA, Camillus, Western, and Becker Knife & Tool Cutlery!
 
The flat grind on the EDC looks great to me. It's now on my gotta have list. The pic of the brush hog is the best I've seen. Boy does that look awesome! Also a must have. Now if the Becker line would come out with a 3-4" drop point hunter in their fine carbon steel (uncoated), I'd be Totally Hoodoo.
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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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