looking at putting together a press

V

vikingGoalie

Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
70
Yes i have looked here on the forum and there are some pretty good how to's here and on youtube.
this is more of a conversation starter/idea on getting together a press that is a lot less expensive but still decent.
To over simplify things ;)
I see it as 3 main areas, the frame, the hydraulic power pack, and the cylinder.
yes there are nuances to the frame like the carriage that travels and dies and die holders and so on. but that's not my concern now as those are readily solvable problems.

So for the frame, I think I'm gonna pickup up a hydraulic press frame (one of those big H ones that are to wide for our application) from an estate auction. There is a high chance I can get one for around 20 bucks.
The idea being that I can't even buy that much steel at scrap prices, so I'll take the frame and cut it down to it's member pieces to clean up and weld back again to a proper frame for my application.
I think i can get the frame pretty cheap, and then honestly I was going to outsource the welding to someone who is a lot better then I on structural welds.

For the power pack: https://www.vevor.com/electric-driv...punching-bending-jack-machines-p_010787990228
I have watched a few youtubes where one of them the guy actually made a forging press from that and was overall pleased. I don't have to land on that one per se, but quite honestly I have been extremely happy with all my vevor purchases.
I get that it's not gonna be as good as something 2-4x the cost, but at $277 for dual acting all contained power pack it most likely is good enough.

Lastly the cylinder. This one I think i can source a new cylinder for ~$200. this one on amazon is less but I want a bigger one: https://www.amazon.com/CWA-Hydraulics-Cylinder-Bore-Stroke/dp/B07CN4C257?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1


so I'm thinking I can put one of these together for around 500 in parts, plus whatever I kick towards the welder I engage. I have a family friend that if he's available has every welding certification you can get damn near (he even did underwater repairs on ships at one point) who would do it for a case of beer. but If he is not available, I'll find a contractor around here. it's not complex and I'm hoping if i present parts cut and ready to weld that it wouldn't cost much more then 200 bucks. so for 500-800 it looks like I might be able to put together a fairly decent press machine? (plus cost of dies)

I'm still lurking on marketplace and craigslist hoping to find a blacksmith unloading a forging press for super cheap but that's like finding a unicorn. 6 months of waiting on alerts has born no fruit. I had found a great one when i first started (actually 2) but I didn't realize how good of a deal I was looking at at the time.
 
You will need a heavier frame than what you describe.
The pump you show won't work.
That cylinder will work for a low power press, but a better cylinder would be a good idea.

Ther is no such thing as, "A blacksmith unloading a forging press for super cheap."

A knifemaker stopped in a small town to visit a well-known makers shop. When he arrived, he realized they were holding a funeral for the old gent. People were lined up outside the small house and down the lane. He took his hat off and silently stood in the crowd. He started chatting with a fellow after the service concluded and was told that the man was trying to move his forging press, and it fell on him. He went to the widow and, after offering his condolences, said, "I would be glad to buy that press and haul it away, so you never see it again." She said that would be kind, and he should get in the back of the line of the others ahead of him.
 
weo said:
I'll go a step further and say there's no such thing as a super cheap forging press....if you care about safety that is...
Click to expand...
Except that I was in a blacksmiths shop the guy was closing up and selling his stuff on fb
I was just trying to buy some tongs and really didn't even really know what I needed.

He told me he sold his power hammer and he sold his 25 ton forging press for 900 bucks!! I found his ad on marketplace after, I missed it because he misspelled hydraulic and FB algorithm didn't get it because.

I also missed on a gents 25 ton in Ohio with a bunch of dies, mobile cart the works for 1500. I had no idea at the time how great a deal it was.

But since those nothing.

On the frame, this forum makes it difficult to share images. But it's a 50 ton frame made out of 8 inch I beams. The builds I've seen used lesser steel.

Yes I want a 5 inch cylinder not the 4 in the link. That was a reference point for price.

So the pump won't work, is it the flow rate is too low?
 
Flow rate and pressure far too low.

BTW, you are not supposed to post links to sales pages. A photo or image and you adding the specs would be the proper way. Like this:

Electric Hydraulic Pump, 10000 PSI 750W 110V, 488 in³/8L Capacity, Double Acting Manual Valve, Electric Driven Hydraulic Pump Power Pack Unit with Lever Switch for Punching/Bending/Jack Machines​


1737022993851.png
 
vikingGoalie said:
Except that I was in a blacksmiths shop the guy was closing up and selling his stuff
Click to expand...
I thought about adding this caveat.....about 5 years ago I found an older 25-ton McDonald press a local shop was selling for $5000 that my buddy bought.
 
The pump setup you linked to is a 10K psi which means the volume is most likely VERY low. For a forging hydraulic press you need something on the order of a pump with a low pressure rating around 15 GPM for your 5" cylinder. when the pressure builds >600psi or so it will kick into "low gear" and be only 3 (4?) or so GPM.

Here's a link to calculate ram speed: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

Sounds like you're wanting a 25 ton press - here's a link to calculate tonnage based on PSI and cylinder bore:

Stacy, I liked your story about the funeral - get in line:)
 
Without a photo of the used press you are looking at for the frame, it is hard to say what strength it is.
8" I-beam is a good size if they are sufficiently thick and welded properly. A 25-ton press needs a LOT of strength.

Ken has put you on the trac for the size pumps and flow/pressure needed. Also, a 12-gallon reservoir tank and 10 gallons of hydraulic fluid will be needed ... plus valves and hoses rated for 3000PSI.
 
thx guys, i love the flow of information you all provide.
this is a pic of the frame, which i may not get depends on the bidding but currently bidding is at $2 and these don't usually sell for much.
https://imgur.com/a/FqwM26m

this guy did an air over hydraulic 30t for pretty cheap:
note, I don't want to do air over hydraulic, the build up of pressure on the squish seems to take to long, still better then by hand just saying though...

let me state the goal here..

so I'm in my start-up phase of trying to monetize my hobby. I have no illusions about making a lot from this, but I do want to be able to pay for the equipment and turn a small profit.
To that end, I want a press for damascus and I'm not interested in doing damascus by hand. I know I can but time is money. All that said.

If I go a completely commercial route I think i'm looking at a little over 5K to get a 25t press from clark iron. most reasonable price I've seen and I've used their 40t press and talked to people who owned the 25.
Money is a little tight on start-up right now. So i'm trying to invest wisely. If I can fabricate a press that is good enough for my first year or two of production until i'm off the ground that costs well under half I can invest that money into other tools and items I need. I can come up with the 5k to get a press, but all the other incidentals will get put on the back burner until i build funds back up again. That is what weighs in my head on this, should i cry one time and just let someone else build this for me or should I save 3K+ because what I get built will be good enough for now.
 
That is an auto shop bending press. It won't hold up for a forging press. You need welded beams three times as thick (or more) for a 25-ton press.

I tell everyone that if you buy a commercial press, say from Coal Iron, you get a press that is plug-and-play, delivery all at one time, customer service, and a warranty.
If you aren't setup and skilled at building hydraulic systems .... let someone do it for you. It will truly be cry once. A home-built press could have many crying sessions before it works right. You can also sell it a lot faster than a Frankenpress if you get tired of it
 
Last edited:
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
That is an auto shop bending press. It won't hold up for a forging press. You need welded beams three times as thick (or more) for a 25-ton press.

I tell everyone that if you buy a commercial press, say from Coal Iron, you get a press that is plug-and-play, delivery all at one time, customer service, and a warranty.
If you aren't setup and skilled at building hydraulic systems .... let someone do it for you. IT will truly be cry once. A home-built press could have many crying sessions before it works right. Yiu can also sell it a lot faster than a Frankenpress if you get tired of it
Click to expand...
that is good advice, it truly is. I guess i just wrestle with the cost differential, I did agonize over this with the belt grinder where I did my own and it worked decently for a time but ultimately buying one from someone was the right decision. It just tracks better, runs awesome everything about it is better and saves time. Also what weighs in my head is the balance of what is it you want to spend your time on, making tools to make knives, or making knives...
 
Here are a few of thoughts. Get the "How to build a hydraulic press" book by Dr.Batson minimal investment with Great information. I built my 30 ton press about 5 years ago for around $1700. First thing I made was an air over hydraulic press about $200 12 years ago ,slow but effective with proper dies. Then a Rusty Appalachian power hammer about 10 years ago for about $700. Just some things to think about. After the Air hydraulic press I paid for everything with sales. It was slow.
Good luck
 
Last edited:
Ken H> said:
Looking at the photo of the mechanic shop press I didn't see anything much that could be used on a 25 ton press.
Click to expand...
I could see using the channel to increase the footprint to maximize stability....
 
VikingGoalie:
If the press frame you are looking at is only $20, you could use the pieces for the base and the hydraulics package frame/stand of a press build. You might find other uses for the steel in building tables and such in the shop. However, none of it is usable for making the structural parts of the forging press you want.
Of course, to repurpose it you would need a metal cutting saw capable of accurately chopping up 8" I-beams.

That $400 mini-press build video isn't 30-Ton. The cylinder is listed at 30 ton and the tiny hydraulic pump at 10,000PSI. These are the explosion ratings, not the actual output. Those units won't create the flow rate needed for anything usable to forge knives. They move so little fluid ... and do it terribly slow ... that the ram speed would be too slow for forging. They can't move more than a fraction of one GPM at 100PSI. A good forging press delivers 16 to 22 GPM at first stage and 3 or so GPM at second stage. Pressure is usually 3000 PSI rated and run with the check valve set at 1800-2500 PSI. A knife shop press can move the cylinder at 2 or more IPS and develop 8-30 tons of force (depending on pump and motor size).
The pump shown delivers .5GPM at first stage and .04GPM at second stage. That is useless for our purposes. The other thing not talked about is those type of power packs is they have a very short life if used much.
Another thing that is left out in videos and ads about those type of air-over pumps is the need for a very large compressor that provides 100-120PSI at 10-12 CFM. One of those size compressors can cost a couple grand. They also run at near 90Db. The video quickly zips right past that info.

NOTE:
Forging presses don't need to be 30 ton and fast as a power hammer. 8-10 tons and reasonable ram speed around 1 IPS work just fine for all but the big shops doing large billets of damascus.
Coal Irom and similar units are modular, so you can put the pieces together with a couple buddies in an hour or so and be ready to squish steel. They can plug in to a standard 120VAC outlet and be rolled around the shop on casters. While you could build one for around $1000 over a month or two (if you have sufficient equipment and skills), a complete press packages start at $3750.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top