Looking for a nice Pump Gun

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Oct 18, 2007
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I'm in the market for a nice 12 ga. pump gun for shooting skeet/trap/clays (informally), upland game hunting, and heck, why not, home defense. Remington 870 was the first thing that came to mind, but the Express ones that I handled seemed pretty junky - actions like dragging over broken glass, plastic bits :eek:, ugly laminate stocks, etc. Not what I'm used to. And I haven't been able to find a Wingmaster, for the life of me, at any shop. I've heard that the Mossie 500s might be a better bet, but I'm looking for something nice, something with some walnut. Has anyone tried out the Browning BPS? Because that might be the way I'm going, although I'm guess they're not made in the U.S. :mad:. I'm not familiar with the Winchesters, either. I know that the Benelli Nova's awesome, but not what I'm looking for right now.
 
I got a BPS, its a lot of shotgun for the $ got mine for $220 used, but 99% perfect grade. And BNIB their still very resonable. Invector plus choke tube system, w/ 3 different tubes, 28" vent rib barrel, nice walnut stock, bottom ejection so a lefty or rightie can shoot it no probelm. I think the action is a tad stiffer then my old F&N that had a right side ejection port. But the BPS is NOT really a home/personal defense shotgun IMO, it is a sporting arm.

You could always buy a Siaga 12, my buddy was nailing soda bottles 2-3 times in the air at the range today. That thing is a blaster. :D :P :)
 
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Winchester 1300 has a really smooth action. Can't believe you don't like the express though. That's my favorite action out of the big 3. Winchester, Remington, and Mossberg all make good one.
 
870 works for me.

My old Wingmaster currently wears a Remington factory 20 inch rifle sight barrel with an open cylinder choke.
I have another barrel as well, 26 inch with factory choke tubes. Put that one on and the shotgun is a fine hunting 12 ga.
870.jpg
 
I've got a 3.5" Browning BPS Stalker. It's a heavy gun. The 3" guns are lighter though. Had no issues with it.

If you're looking at used, finding a nice older Wingmaster 870 would be the way I'd go.
 
I DO NOT LIKE BOTTOM EJECTING PUMPS. I know guys that love their brownings and other similar bird guns that both feed and eject from the bottom but they are a pain in the ass. That said, I own one, an Ithaca 37, and it's alright. The two most common pump guns on the market are the Remington 870 Wingmaster and the Mossberg 500/590, though the Benelli Nova (I picked one up a few months ago) is also a superb choice. I think the Nova is the most ergonomic of the three and its balance allows for superfast point-and-shoot reactions. Also, the pump action is slicker than anything I've felt before. I paid 250 dollars for mine although MSRP I believe is generally higher than the Mossberg and Remington. I'd hit the pawn shops, generally you can find a superb 870 or 590 for around 100 bucks used. I sleep next to an Ultra 87, a Norinco chinese contract built copy, with a 18 inch barrel, 6 round tube, synthetic stock and truglo sights. It's my home defense gun and costed me 97 dollars brand new. It feeds reliably, is easy to clean, and I have no complaints about it whatsoever for a home defense gun. If you want more than 3 rounds loaded, I suggest this as a home defense gun on a budget. I believe the Mossberg 590 is currently the Marines CQC/urban combat shotgun because it's cheap and you can beat the piss out of it while still milking great performance and reliability from it. It'll feed all kinds of ammo, one right after the other without fail.
 
I DO NOT LIKE BOTTOM EJECTING PUMPS. I know guys that love their brownings and other similar bird guns that both feed and eject from the bottom but they are a pain in the ass.

Why? Just curious what makes them a pain in the ass.

I have owned a Winchester Ranger 1300, several Rem. 870's in various flavors, a Benelli Nova, Mossberg 500 and a BPS. I have even been an armorer for the Remington 870.

My favorites have been the Winchester and the BPS. But, alas, in 2007 the USRAC factory closed and FN now makes them under their moniker. I don't think they make them outside of a tactical type shotgun; and I'm not even sure they even make those anymore. I wish I had never sold my Ranger.

Of those two, the Ranger is still my favorite, but the BPS is almost an equal to me.

The 870 is not as well made as it once was, but it biggest plus is that it is the AR15 of shotguns when it comes to obtaining OEM and aftermarket parts. You can find them just about anywhere. If you want the best built current 870 model, I would go with the Wingmaster instead of the Express.

The Nova is a very good gun. I found it heavy however, and it rattled. Hands down, however, it has the most, and best safety features of any shotgun.

Mossberg has come a long way and they are a solid gun. There are tons of models and variations to choose from; probably more than any other maker has to offer. Basically, if your choice comes down between the 500 and the 870, it will basically come down to whether you prefer the tang safety or the cross-bolt trigger guard safety.

The BPS has certain features I prefer. I prefer a tang safety because I can see it while sighting in the shooting position. I also prefer the bottom eject for a few reasons. First, it is very simple and debris and junk have a harder time getting into the action. Debris and junk can also fall out easier. Second, if someone wants to shoot my gun, it doesn't matter if they are left or right handed; the shells eject out the bottom. Third, when I'm hunting dove or shooting blue rock, I don't have to go looking for my hulls; they are all laying in a pile at my feet. Downside is that the BPS action is not as easy to break down, however it really doesn't ever need to be done unless there is a problem. It stays relatively clean due to it's simplicity.

JM2C.
 
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Get a used 870 wingmaster or find a police model and buy another barrel. The 870express is ok but they are nowhere near the wingmaster and not even built on the same line as the police model.
 
Off to Gadgets & Gear.
 
For what you want, I would keep an eye open for a Remington 870 Wingmaster. Best pump gun ever made IMO.
 
The Remington 870 is the way to go. If you want nice stock and an already smooth action get the Wingmaster. The Express is the same shotgun but not finished as well as the Wingmaster.

Auction sites have decent deals on Wingmasters. FYI - If you can search a site like Gunbroker and if the pics have the serial number you can call Remington to see when it was made. I like to know the age of my firearms.

This being said, get a newer one that has choke tubes. It can handle steel shot if necessary and will fit your needs. I think the Wingmaster Magnum with 26" barrel with RemChoke is the answer. Buy second hand. You get the best deal.

BTW - Mannlicher's set up definitely meets your needs. With a second barrel it can covert to whatever function you need it to do. Nice job Mannlicher..
 
Well, I'll throw my 2 cents in- I bought my shotgun 5 years ago and haven't had one regret yet. I bought a Remington 870 Express Super Magnum with a synthetic stock (I was talked into it) and it's been awesome! I've never had any issues with it at all. It's my upland game gun of choice and has been very reliable. In fact I just got my first deer with it this last December (yeah, I know I'm 30 but just now got my first deer. Hunting wasn't allowed growing up and now I'm catchin up) It's a solid gun and I'm extremely happy with it. I've shot a few others brands/types of 12 gauge but I think I'm gonna stick with what I have. I happy.
 
Thanks all. Wingmasters seem impossible to find in these parts, or else I'd have one already :D. One or two gun shops actually thought that Remington stopped making them until they ran in the back and took a look on the computer. No one has them on the "used" racks either. I've handled Wingmasters in the past and I really don't think you can compare the Express to it, otherwise I would've just picked up an Express and some aftermarket walnut.

So, for argument's sake, say I can't get my hands on a Wingmaster (I don't like gunbroker - I want the gun in my hands before I buy it), I'll probably go with the BPS (although I think I saw some Win 1300's used at one of the shops...). I understand that aftermarket parts are much harder to find, but the two that I would really want is a second barrel and a mag tube extension. Are those easy to find? Also, when ejes says their harder to take apart than an 870, how much harder are they? Because 870s are pretty simple.
 
The 870 probably has the most aftermarket products available.

FWIW I have used GunBroker with very good results. Couple of suggestions:

1. Buy from someone who is established on GB with positive ratings.

2. Look for the seller who openly discloses scratches and nicks, etc.

3. Look for clear pics. Beware of the fuzzy ones.


Most sellers will have inspection periods. I would say you could get a nice condition Wingmaster between $325 - $375. New they are close to $600.

Good luck.

Also I have seen tutorials on how the hone the internals on an 870 Express which will make the action as smooth as the Wingmaster.
 
Also, when ejes says their harder to take apart than an 870, how much harder are they? Because 870s are pretty simple.


They aren't hard really once you've seen it done and know how to do it. The biggest problem is sliding the assembled trigger-guard back into the receiver. You have to separate the right and left cartridge stops and align the hammer pin flats in the slots all at the same time.

Again, in my experience, you very rarely would need to do this. Just field stripping the barrel off and cleaning everything with solvent down inside as best you can and then oiling is all you need to do. In fact, Browning suggests not going beyond the simple field take down. But for me, being an armorer and working on guns, I am anal about cleaning my guns; so I had to learn how to do it. It was hard to believe, and swallow, that I didn't need to break it down every time. After doing it for some years now, I am 100 % confident that it doesn't need to be done unless it is broken or you were to physically pack mud inside the action and then work the action. The action is just so simple and basically self cleaning. In other words, don't worry about having to break down the action. So, there you go, another plus. Saves time in cleaning. Using Break-Free CLP is perfect for this type of action.

As far as after market barrels and a mag tube extension, here is what I've seen. After market OEM barrels are not hard to find. They are easily purchased over the internet. They are not cheap, however.

Magazine tube extensions are available, but are not OEM. The are around $80. Problem is that some people feel they work well, others have problems with them. I've been in law enforcement for 20 years now and a firearms instructor and armorer for most of that time. In a home environment, if you have done what you need to do with a 4+1 shotgun, you've got more serious problems. However, if you are really set on a higher capacity magazine, my suggestion is to try to find a BPS "High Capcity" and buy another barrel for it. It is basically a law enforcement shotgun with polymer furniture and a 20 inch cylinder bore barrel. If you don't like black furniture, you can always order some walnut.

There are two versions. One is a 5+1 capacity, and the other is a 7+1 capacity. The stock number for the latter is 012244371. http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/itemdetails.asp?cat_id=012&type_id=244&value=011B&cattype=012244&item=012244371


I'm not sure if they are still being made, but there are always new ones listed on Gunbroker. Generally, they are a little cheaper than a regular Hunter model, but the price goes up the few there are out there. I personally don't worry about a high capacity and have the BPS Upland Special with the 22 inch barrel. That barrel length is good for home defense as well as cutting through the woods for squirrel, rabbit or turkey (when I'm not using a bow). I have a longer barrel for dove hunting, etc.

**Remember, be very careful when ordering a new barrel for a BPS. Read the description very carefully. You must match the appropriate barrel to the appropriate chambering; ie. 3 inch to 3 inch, 3.5 inch to 3.5 inch, etc.

Hope this helps you.
 
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If a Wingmaster is unavailable, then I also vote for finding an older 870P and changing out the barrel. The 870P (even one used for years by cops) is lightyears nicer than the Express:thumbup:
 
There are good reasons that the REAL police use/used the 870. They are bullet-proof and you have to try hard to break one. I've had mine since 1961[$62.50 new at Lazarus Dept store, Columbus, OH]..was my upland game/waterfowl/deer shotgun for 30 years or so[ switched to a 1187 Turkey Special].

Currently carries a 20" rifle sight, RemChoke barrel just for grins. I'd hold out for a used WingMaster, have heard the Express suffered, or may still suffer, from some feed problems and more than a few complaints on the matte finish being a rust magnet,YMMV.
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There are good reasons that the REAL police use/used the 870.

What is, "who offers the lowest bid..."

The Remington is a great shotgun, but frankly it used by the most departments for the same reason the Glock is used by most departments...LE Price.
 
What is, "who offers the lowest bid..."

The Remington is a great shotgun, but frankly it used by the most departments for the same reason the Glock is used by most departments...LE Price.

That's why mine uses both the 870 and Glock. Cheap to buy, cheap to fix. The manufactures give deals to LE departments that they can't financially pass up to get their name on as many cops hips as possible. It exponentially increases the number of guns they sell to civilians every year and helps with Fed. Gov't contracts; where they really make their money. Hell, Glock just traded my entire department straight across for new handguns this year. About 600 10 yr. old Glocks (G21) for the new G21 SF's. We didn't have to switch to new holsters or mag pouches since it all still fits, so it didn't cost us one thin dime because Glock wants to get their new product out there, some field reliability reputation behind it, and push it to other markets. In fact, they approached us with the offer. No way a department is going to pass up that deal, especially in these poor fiscal years.

There are good reasons that the REAL police use/used the 870. They are bullet-proof and you have to try hard to break one. I've had mine since 1961[$62.50 new at Lazarus Dept store, Columbus, OH]..was my upland game/waterfowl/deer shotgun for 30 years or so[ switched to a 1187 Turkey Special].

Currently carries a 20" rifle sight, RemChoke barrel just for grins. I'd hold out for a used WingMaster, have heard the Express suffered, or may still suffer, from some feed problems and more than a few complaints on the matte finish being a rust magnet,YMMV.
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We test lots of guns, and usually come away with three that meet specs for the bid. The more expensive is many times the better gun, but as long as they fall in spec, you have to take the lowest bid. Don't base what you buy on what you see us carrying. We buy "fleet" guns: the most generic and inexpensive gun we can that will fit the needs and abilities of as many of the officers as possible, but not all. Every department I've ever talked to does the same.
 
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