Looking for an affordable Claymore--Hanwei vs Darksword?

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Feb 26, 2014
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I'm looking into buying a Scottish Claymore to use as a door hanger and for chopping things. I don't have a ton of money to throw around, and the Hanwei claymore caught my eye at only $220. The next cheapest model I'm looking at, which is starting to push my budget at this point, is the Darksword claymore at $404. The two swords differ quite a bit in design, with the Hanwei being longer and heavier. From what I've read, the Hanwei model is actually modeled after a museum artifact, which gives +1 to the Hanwei for historical accuracy. I like the looks of both though, and am wondering mostly about quality. Is the Darksword claymore's quality really that much better than the Hanwei's? Is the Hanwei a decent sword for playing around with and not having to worry about it breaking? Are there any other claymores I should look at?
 
The Hanwei is a better overall deal. Especially so if looking at your budget. The only real advantage to the Darksword is a better warranty. The Darksword Armory swords are made as blunts from the get go, so sharpening is a real consideration. The main historical issue with the Hanwei has been the pin the put through the blade and guard. Stability wise, that may be a good thing.

For the added money, Darksword offers a scabbard and for more money a belt system. What they also offer is the contentions of their poor ad copy and what I personally see as the opportunity to support a charlatan. Darksword swords are generally noted as pretty tough blades and a good many feel they are worthy of attention, if only for the raw parts that can be redone to their satisfaction. Sharpening from DS has been reported as atrociously uneven. If one has the ability to deal with that, it is a non-issue except the fact that the overall cross section is poor.

Hanwei also has been a bit uneven in the sharpness but at least the grinds were made as sharps instead of re-enactor blunts. Warranty is through the dealer and most will post a disclaimer. KOA's disclaimer goes into abuse and expectations. As having had and handled higher price reproductions, as well as dealing with many period swords, The Hanwei is a no brainer to me and their claymore is one I have considered myself. I admit to being very biased against Darksword but with a more open mind would still prefer the Hanwei unless looking for a total package for costume.

Stepping up in prices from those sources are Del Tin, Arms&Armor and Albion. At a lower median price are the older Generation 2 offerings, now labeled as Legacy Arms. The newer LA claymore is even more anachronistic than the DS. The Del Tin is about $700, $1,000 for the A&A and yet more for the Albion Chieftan. The Armour Class also about $700 plus UK shipping. The other lower end possibility is Museum Replicas.

Cheers

GC
 
I know Eyal Azerad (proprietor of Darksword) personally and I can vouch for him being a far better man than Horseclover has given him credit. Eyal has been on the receiving end of extremely unfair and nasty internet abuse and trolling over the years but Eyal has handled it like a man and has, rather than sinking to the troll's level, refused to bite back. Eyal's company honours guarantees, delivers quickly and produces a solid product, so the vitriol that gets thrown his way is incredibly unjustified. I have in fact spoken to Eyal about the hate campaign against him and his company and he is remarkably stoic about it, telling me it is always the same people (for instance Aaron on SBG) and that Eyal does not let the haters get to him. I really admire the way he handles what is basically school yard taunting on internet forums.

In terms of the overall quality of Darksword's offerings they have become remarkably better in the past few years, coming ahead tremendously in terms of fit and finish.

I do however also like Hanwei as a company, and I like their Claymore and especially their Tinker Pearce Line.

In terms of the difference between the two Claymores I would say that the two companies have different strengths. Darksword produce swords that are forged, which has a very authentic aesthetic in terms of historical concerns. Darksword also make extremely tough swords that withstand punishment most people would not ever think of putting other marques through, and toughness is definitely one of the most important attributes any sword can have. Because Darksword swords are tough they tend to be slightly heavier than some other brands, so doing those chinups will help in this department, but medieval swordsmen were hardly sedentary people afterall!

The Hanwei offering is produced in the main by reduction (grinding) so the overall aesthetic of their Claymore is more modern, and some people prefer that. Hanwei tend to have finer blade sections which some people prefer and which can be a little easier to swing around which people who have desk jobs and live sedentary lives often prefer. The Hanwei claymore bucks the trend though and is 5lb 3oz, whereas the Darksword is 3 pound 6. Darksword's Claymore is 48 inches, whereas the Hanwei offering is a touch longer at 55 inches.

Last thing I will mention is the scabbard, which I think is really important for a sword as high carbon steel (which includes spring steels), while being the perfect steel for swords (better than all others) does come with the problem of rust. Keeping the air off a sword with a scabbard and a light coat of oil or vaseline on the sword is the most practical way to keep the rust away. The scabbard also makes a sword a much safer thing to have around.

You will definitely find a 48 inch sword more wieldy than a 55 inch one, and in this instance the 55 inch one is substantially heavier too. Swords as large as 55 inches tend often to require being used like spears most of the time, whereas 48 inches will give the wielder many more opportunities to swing it as well. On the other hand, the 55 inch one is going to be more imposing for display purposes for sure.

So there you have it, I love both swords, and I really like the swords that both companies make too. I have tried to list pros and cons for you here rather than pick one sword over another, because their is no way of knowing what another person considers to be the most important attributes in a sword without discussing their needs at great length with them. I really think you'll be chuffed whichever sword you pick, so please do let us know which one you go with!

Bill Blake
CEO Sword-Site.Com - The World's Largest Online Sword Museum
 
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(for instance Aaron on SBG)
Who is trolling here Bill? :D

To date, Eyal has copied a number of other makers work and claimed innocence or coincidence, in fact offered apology and even redesigned a recent flagship sword in the Wolfsbane. The ad copy has been quite atrocious and inaccurate at times. Darksword should be more than able to grind a decent edge, as touted as smiths. All that aside, they do offer a complete package and as I posted, favored by some. In a recent snippet, Eyal is featured in an upcoming documentary. Note his comments at the 6:45 and particularly profiling a tang with a milling machine at 7:44. Robert Marks is doing a great job in answering questions aimed at DS but the half truths continue to prevail.
[video=youtube;lyy33o_PCo8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyy33o_PCo8[/video]

The title of "A Day In The Life" video was in fact my suggestion during discussion at myArmoury. Meant to assuage the contentious to some extent, it really only leads to more skepticism and contention but does give some insight to his shop. The casting section very well presented. Note, this is a shop that forges hundreds of swords a year, along with his pole arms and armour.
[video=youtube;LJlwlqL9wnc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJlwlqL9wnc&index=1&list=UUu1GGRljmoF6CH2Hwg8fUkw[/video]

Cheers

GC
 
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Horseclover I fail to see how myself presenting the facts as I see them is trolling - is it your wish that you should be able to put things out there like calling someone a "charlatan" without anyone challenging you? If someone called you a charlatan Horseclover, whoever you are, I imagine you'd want people who know you to set things straight if you really were not a charlatan. For the record too I'm prepared to put my real name up for scrutiny so it doesn't have to be wondered at who I really am.

The complaints about Darksword seem to revolve around whether Darksword outsource work or not - who cares? Plenty of other brands outsource; for instance Albion outsource casting. I fail to see how nitpicking over minutiae like this warrants calling the man a "charlatan", I really do think that sort of language is hyperbolic in this case. Darksword offer a solid product that fits a certain aesthetic and price point - if one does not like it, don't buy it, it's that simple.

In terms of designs, all makers are copying the works of others all the time, that is how the sword making world works. All of us makers are imitating the great makers of old every time we work, and it is inevitable that modern makers will produce similar designs to each other.

I personally think there is alot of sour grapes involved as Darksword are moving vast units of swords whereas some of their fellow sword making companies have priced themselves out of being competitive are struggling to shift as many units as they would like. If there really was substance to alot of this bad stuff coming off the net about Darksword, Darksword wouldn't be consistently selling out each of their production runs; for me that's proof enough that these complaints need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Ultimately the fact Darksword is selling so well is the ultimate rebuttal to the trolls out there giving Darksword a hard time.

I'm not going to devote any more time to the matter, I really feel that you're pulling us off course Horseclover.

Cloudsrest I do hope you share with us whatever choice you go with, and let us know your thoughts on your purchase - I hope the info I gave on both swords was useful to you.
 
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I'm not going to devote any more time to the matter, I really feel that you're pulling us off course Horseclover.

In fact Bill, it takes more than one to derail a thread beyond original context and you have done an excellent job. I clearly qualified my mention of the word charlatan when I followed that I am biased towards DS. What you dismiss is that I answered the op and offered an opinion encouraging any to consider DS as a viable option (more than once). As a Johnny come lately to the thread, you are clearly more upset in defense of Eyal Azerad. Be the man he is and shrug it off.

I am not hard to find

Cheers

Glen A Cleeton

(you already have my email)
 
In fact Bill, it takes more than one to derail a thread beyond original context and you have done an excellent job.

QFT. As someone who has no bone in this fight, I wasn't really going to chime in, but I think the major thread derailing here has been done by Mr. Bill Blake, jumping to defense of his friend. Which is great and all, but the opinion presented strikes me (again, as an interested outside observer) as being rather biased and with copious issues.

Here's the deal for me: I don't know anything at all about who Bill Blake is, outside of a fellow who makes swords. Having not handled them, I have no opinions whatsover about their relative quality. But why should we care about your endorsement of Eyal? I'll be one of the first to say that horseclover can rub people the wrong way. I've seen plenty of threads wherein he was involved somehow in squabbles, which is not to say that he was entirely or at all at fault in any of them. But he doesn't strike me as being the troll here.

Horseclover did, in fact, qualify his views about DSA as being HIS. Not statements of fact, but specifically mentioned as personal opinions. You may have alternate opinions, and if you want to mention them, fine, but if I were the OP, it would be relevant to me to know that at least some people feel that everything is not all sunshine and ponies over at DSA, so I can do my own research. If I were the OP, and I were interested in more detail, that leaves the opportunity to ask for it, potentially via PM, which allows avoiding airing more dirty laundry in public. Until Mr Blake chimed in, all that could have been left out as something that could be overlooked, and the end result is probably even worse for DSA, especially as their primary supporter jumps in and starts throwing around the "troll" allegation, among other insults flung about to everyone who might possibly disagree. As a side note, as someone who has been on here for a while, I'm also less inclined to take someone seriously who doesn't support the forum, and keeps violating forum rules by advertising for himself without supporting the forum. And who repeatedly does so, even though previous attempts at advertising got removed. If you don't respect the community enough to follow the rules, why should we respect your opinion about someone else?

I am also unimpressed by some of the things that have been said, such as "Hanwei tend to have finer blade sections which some people prefer and which can be a little easier to swing around which people who have desk jobs and live sedentary lives often prefer." In my experience, horseclover tends to go to some lengths to avoid insulting an entire segment of the population, and frankly, Hanwei is considerably better at actually putting in important things like distal taper, etc, than Darksword, which seems to be aiming more at the stage sword segment of the sword-buying population. Some of the users on here actually have considerable training in sword-related martial arts, and have a very different opinion about distal taper (eg, that finer blade section that you're dissing here) than you do. Which doesn't much inspire confidence in your opinion, if you're trying to relegate that to the realm of "sedentary desk job types."

The bias also shows when you say "Darksword's Claymore is 48 inches, whereas the Hanwei offering is a touch longer at 55 inches." 7 inches strikes me as a pretty substantial amount of blade, for one, accounting for a good amount of weight as well. In fact, that puts it almost 15% longer than the DSA offering. Referring to it as a "touch," when some simple math suffices to provide the far more accurate "It's 7 inches longer" statement, seems designed to promote bias. How about the "argument" that Darksword is selling well, and therefore we should assume that it's great? I almost don't even know where to begin with the logical fallacies here. First, the average sword buyer doesn't really know a whole lot about swords, take that for what it is. Witness the fact that 440 stainless, Made In China with poor heat treat, cord wrapped "tactical ninja" swords sell so well, often for hundreds of dollars. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really inspire confidence. More, because the two swords at stake here are Hanwei and DSA, to make that argument seems to suggest that Hanwei is NOT selling well, or is not selling as well as DSA. That strikes me as highly suspect. Etc.

I tend to think it's better to keep things to facts and avoid the extra bias-laden language. I also think it's best to follow the forum rules.

To the OP:

Here are a few things I've gleaned about DSA. Take them for what you will; this is PURELY the product of research on the internet, and has nothing to do with my own personal experience, hence why you'll never find me advocating for or against DSA.

1. Darksword Armory seems to me to be geared primarily towards stage combat. They're often described as being initially ground, as Glen says, as blunts, and there are many reports about DSA swords not being ground with distal taper. There are many reports that they're heavy (or overly heavy). So if you're looking for something tough, they're probably right up your alley. Stage combat requires resistance to considerably different stresses than a sword designed more for combat.

2. There are several allegations relating to poor business practice involving DSA. Take that how you will. Horseclover has outlined some of what he personally views as potential issues, which relate to why he personally likely won't do much business with DSA. I'll also note that you'll be hard pressed to find similar issues with Paul Chen and Hanwei. Take that as you will, since it's hardly demonstrative of the relatively validity of the aforementioned issues.

I have been generally happy with the value per cost of Hanwei. There are plenty of people who like Darksword, but to make a statement about which is "better" requires thought about "better for what." Do some research, and think about what you really want out of the claymore. For your purposes, I suspect the more inexpensive Hanwei is a good option. There may be others that might also fit your purpose. If you can provide a little more detail about how much you care about weight distribution and handling, sharpness and retention thereof, toughness etc, you may get better recommendations. Also would be worth knowing the upper limit of your budget.
 
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