Looking for info on Dogos

[Dobe_1]

Here you go Moonw. Go for it.

 

[Moonw]

I promise to write tomorrow. Today I cleaned kennels, kennel runs and took care of dogs for about 10 hours straight .

If you have any questions in particular, write 'em up in the mean time.

 

[Dobe_1]

I'm about to catch a flight. I'll post some questions tomorrow. See you then.

 

[Moonw]

Ok. I wouldn't just want to repeat things you can find in pretty much any online description of the breed, so I'd rather focus on specifics.

 

[ndoghouse]

I didnt know much about Dogo Argentina till I got one. I had seen them being used for hunting wild boar in the area along with pits and other dogs but didnt know what they were. Mine is very good natured but dont take his rabbit and all will fine. Wish he would bring me some more antler

 

[Dobe_1]

Sorry for the delay. I just rolled out of bed. I lost three hours flying back from San Diego.

I know you said you don't want the typical questions that can be answered from a website, but in truth, I have many questions that I have answered from a website, but I'd rather have you answer them.
I don't really know you personally, but as we all do, I've formed an opinion of you after reading many of your post. I assume in advance that you are experienced with the breed, and that you will be forth coming with the good as well as the bad.

So, here are few of my questions.
How is the temperment? I love large dogs, but I'm not into aggressive (uncontrollable) dogs. I realize that the overall opinion of dog people is that pit bulls are not overly aggressive, if treated properly, but nature has an influence.
For example, as a Doberman-kinda-guy, I've watch this breed go from stable to sharp and back over the course of about 40 years. In the 70's, the saying was "if you can touch my Doberman, you can have it." The breed was simply sharp and edgy. Reports of Dobermans turning on their masters were not uncommon. If a dog is bred for that type of aggression, it is hard to contain it. You also see this behavior when a breed becomes the popular dog of the era. I believe this is what happened to Dobermans in the 70's. They were the macho dog of the time. I wouldn't have had one then. The breed is much more emotionally stable now, at least in my opinion.

One of the reasons I'm attracted to the Dogo as well as the Rhodesian Ridgeback is because neither is very popular, therefore the likely hood of the breed being over bred is more remote.

How is the aggression with other dogs.? Many dominate, if not most, type dogs are alpha dogs, and simply don't like dogs outside of their own pack. This isn't a deal breaker for me, as I have experienced it before with other dogs of mine., just wondering. My assumption is that the Dogo will not be receptive to other dogs not in its own pack.

How prevalent is dysplasia in this breed. It is common in most larger breeds, but some more than others. Are there any other prevailing malaises, diseases, or conditions common to this breed? Dobermans are plagued with Wobblers, Von Willebrand, and cardio myopathy. The latter took my Doberman.

Training and intelligence - How easy is the Dogo to train, how intelligent do you feel they are? I realize we all think our favorite breed is special, but I'd like for you to tell me what you have seen with Dogos.
I perform my own obedience training. Until my current dog, I trained the last three I worked with up to and including off leash and hand signals. The three I trained that will forever stand out in my mind are my Doberman, a German Short Hair mix, and a Rat Terrier. Out of the three, the Doberman was by far the easiest to train. She simply picked up on the training faster, and understood reward and punishment quickly.

The German Short Hair was stubborn to the point of being spiteful. It took me much longer to train her than it did the Doberman, and in fact, she never did reach the level of the Doberman. The Rat Terrier had a strong prey drive, and was very mischievous. I used to call him Satan's lap dog. He was intelligent, but took a strong hand. Once he was trained, he always looked at me as the Alpha, and would obey me before his owners.

Other questions to follow....

 

[ndoghouse]

I know you weren't addressing me but since I have one i figured Id give some input on one Dogo Argentina.

How is the temperment?

As long as he knows whos pack hes fine. Hes actually not the alpha dog in my pack. That kitten was! After my daughter took it from me the Jack Russell resumed the alpha position. The dogo is pretty passive.

They played for many hours at a time. I never left them alone for the day because kitty might have been lunch but there was no indication of that while we were home with them.

One of the reasons I'm attracted to the Dogo as well as the Rhodesian Ridgeback is because neither is very popular, therefore the likely hood of the breed being over bred is more remote.

I believe there is something to that popularity thing. You get in influx of a bunch of dogs that dont fit the "perfect" model and they get dumped. The breeders dont wait to find homes for all of the litter before they sell the next batch. When you tag them "dangerous breed" then it makes it even harder to find them homes. Hence the breed specific rescue teams "Love-a-Bull', "Villallobos Rescue...",blah blah etc. I do remember the seventies popularity of the Dobe's and I believe you are right. Same with the Rottweiler right behind the Dobe.

How is the aggression with other dogs.?

I dont notice any difference in aggression of mine than with any other dog out of the pack. Just one dog though.

Now the Terrier is another story. He flunked that training miserably. Maybe he just couldnt figure out how to punch them scantron cards?

Training and intelligence -

You can train a Rat Terrier? Lemme find out! Are you sure?

Learning some log rolling!

 

[Dobe_1]

My friend, I'm addressing anyone who wants to talk dogs. Thanks for the post.

Edit: I like the doggie intelligence test. I'll have to give it a try.

 

[ndoghouse]

Ah! OK Carry on:thumbup:

My friend, I'm addressing anyone who wants to talk dogs. Thanks for the post.

Edit: I like the doggie intelligence test. I'll have to give it a try.

Believe me he didnt learn a dang thing. He growls anytime ANY dog gets within three feet of him. Partly because he the smallest and dont take kind to getting stepped on but hes also a bully. He will lay in the hallway just to taunt the other dogs and not let them pass. Ill hear the Dogo whimpering in the middle of the night sometimes and get up to see whats up and find out the terrier wont let him pass. Hes a bully with a cap "B". He will fight to the death too. Hes missing a few teeth and had plenty of holes and staples in his life. Hes pretty scarred up. He's full of character tho.

Heres what a Dogo looks like after dragging a buck to the ground.

Notice all the scratches on his belly and chest. His head is not scratched up because they latch on to the throat like a tick and do the alligator roll if needed to bring them to the ground. They wont let go no matter what. That buck dragged him through the brush and who knows what else until it finally hit the ground. Then Im sure he went to town on it. Im not condoning or bragging on what my dog can do. This is solely for informational purposes. I personally dont like to take wildlife on my own property here (short of rabbits) since I only have five acres. I like watching animals and I like eating them as well but I aint starving so Ill get my meat elsewhere. Ill be fencing the property very soon just to keep the critters where they need to be. The deer didnt go to waste tho. My dogs ate off that deer for weeks so I didnt have to buy dog food for a while. Karda has the antlers for HI handle repairs and the bones are accounted for. Waste nothing around here.

Heres the last tidbit off that deer. My dogo was so tired and stuffed he couldnt eat it all and just fell asleep just like that.

 

[Dobe_1]

Such is the nature of a terrier. My nephew was a K-9 cop for over 15 years. He once used Rotts, and also had a Jack Russell as a pet (swears he'll never have another). That Jack Russell would jump on the Rott, and hang on that big beast's lip. I don't know why the Rott wouldn't kill the Jack Russell.

 

[ndoghouse]

(swears he'll never have another)

Cant tell you how many times I have heard that. I for one!
I got mine at about a year old. I cant imagine having a puppy. He was a Hurricane Rita rescue we got from the bayou. My MIL called us saying she had a cute little dog thats swimming around in the bayou with the gators and she was afraid he was going to get eaten. Poor gators. I took him home 15 years ago. Hes just as mean now. We love him tho He does that lip thing too. My two newest dogs grab for the lip too? Pretty funny to watch.

 

[Moonw]

3 AM here. I will tell you the good and the bad, in my experience, tomorrow. I for one really like your approach.

 

[Dobe_1]

Oh well on the deer thing. I've hunted deer with dogs for years, I've just never seen one kill a deer. You do know that fencing your property won't keep the deer out. Bet that Dogo will though.

 

[ndoghouse]

Yes i do know. Thanks Dobe but it will keep the dogo confined to the property and give the deer a better chance to find a safe zone. He may bulldoze a fence down trying to get to one tho. If nothing else the fence is going up mainly to keep humans out.

 

[Dobe_1]

Good point.

BTW, that Dogo of yours is a great looking dog.

 

[Moonw]

Sorry for the delay. I just rolled out of bed. I lost three hours flying back from San Diego.

I know you said you don't want the typical questions that can be answered from a website, but in truth, I have many questions that I have answered from a website, but I'd rather have you answer them.
I don't really know you personally, but as we all do, I've formed an opinion of you after reading many of your post. I assume in advance that you are experienced with the breed, and that you will be forth coming with the good as well as the bad.

So, here are few of my questions.
How is the temperment? I love large dogs, but I'm not into aggressive (uncontrollable) dogs. I realize that the overall opinion of dog people is that pit bulls are not overly aggressive, if treated properly, but nature has an influence.
For example, as a Doberman-kinda-guy, I've watch this breed go from stable to sharp and back over the course of about 40 years. In the 70's, the saying was "if you can touch my Doberman, you can have it." The breed was simply sharp and edgy. Reports of Dobermans turning on their masters were not uncommon. If a dog is bred for that type of aggression, it is hard to contain it. You also see this behavior when a breed becomes the popular dog of the era. I believe this is what happened to Dobermans in the 70's. They were the macho dog of the time. I wouldn't have had one then. The breed is much more emotionally stable now, at least in my opinion.

One of the reasons I'm attracted to the Dogo as well as the Rhodesian Ridgeback is because neither is very popular, therefore the likely hood of the breed being over bred is more remote.

How is the aggression with other dogs.? Many dominate, if not most, type dogs are alpha dogs, and simply don't like dogs outside of their own pack. This isn't a deal breaker for me, as I have experienced it before with other dogs of mine., just wondering. My assumption is that the Dogo will not be receptive to other dogs not in its own pack.

How prevalent is dysplasia in this breed. It is common in most larger breeds, but some more than others. Are there any other prevailing malaises, diseases, or conditions common to this breed? Dobermans are plagued with Wobblers, Von Willebrand, and cardio myopathy. The latter took my Doberman.

Training and intelligence - How easy is the Dogo to train, how intelligent do you feel they are? I realize we all think our favorite breed is special, but I'd like for you to tell me what you have seen with Dogos.
I perform my own obedience training. Until my current dog, I trained the last three I worked with up to and including off leash and hand signals. The three I trained that will forever stand out in my mind are my Doberman, a German Short Hair mix, and a Rat Terrier. Out of the three, the Doberman was by far the easiest to train. She simply picked up on the training faster, and understood reward and punishment quickly.

The German Short Hair was stubborn to the point of being spiteful. It took me much longer to train her than it did the Doberman, and in fact, she never did reach the level of the Doberman. The Rat Terrier had a strong prey drive, and was very mischievous. I used to call him Satan's lap dog. He was intelligent, but took a strong hand. Once he was trained, he always looked at me as the Alpha, and would obey me before his owners.

Other questions to follow....

Temperament. These are powerhouse dogs that came into being primarily for hunting in the old, traditional way. By "old, traditional way" I mean on horseback, with a pack of dogs, chasing wild hogs up to 400 lbs, or cougars; once the prey was caught, the dog(s) had to hold it no matter what. So that the human could safely go in and deliver the "coup de grace" with nothing but a knife, sometimes crawling in a bush of thorns. Had the dogs let go, this could have meant a really bad day for the hunter.

Most of the time, the dogs weren't being run with cut-vests, as in the US, so injuries were more prevalent, and sometimes they had to struggle with the prey for long periods of time, humans having not yet arrived at the place of the struggle. Sometimes, guts had to be stuffed back into dogs and sewn right into the field without any anestesia. After a long runs, the dogs were no longer fresh and had to hold for dear life, even if cut badly, more on will and little left reserves of strength.

So I would say they are tough, stubborn and very resilient dogs. Somewhat more active than the typical molosser, and with higher prey drive. Break them early off of chasing farm animals etc. and they will look for other animals they can catch. They are very "primitive" in these regards. These dogs need physical and mental exercise. I am describing here the typical dogo argentino.

As far as I've heard, typical Argentinians view dogos the way the typical US person views pitbulls. I think this is a gross exageration, as instances of attacks on humans are very rare, by the same accounts. (I will interject a little note here: I think that in most cases, barring medical issues that have developen unnoticed (e.g. brain tumors etc.), attacks on humans by their own dogs happen because people have no idea how to handle rough dogs. Many dogs are put down because people want a serious dog and then they get their hands full and allow a dog to growl at them when eating, guard posessions and take over furniture. A few "come to Jesus" (while picking your fights wisely) sessions would reestablish peace and order in such situations. I am not speaking here about dogos, but about any dominant dog that is trying to push its place up in the pack hierarchy.)

With that being said, I find them as dogs not suitable for first-time owners. They will challenge you, like any dominant dog. I will confess that I had from time to time to open a can of whoopass on my female, mostly because she was dominant towards members of the family. However, I was a first-time owner. Today, I know I would do better.

Being consistent and fair will yield you a superb companion. Train them right, do not accept unwarranted agression, be heavier handed when needed (rarely). Just inspire some common sense into their thick skulls and you will be fine. This dog is bred for agression towards furry things, other that dogs, to use your own words. But you can, of course, get the mellower, show type version; I think the best idea is to talk with a breeder and he or she would advise on what pup to pick out of the litter.

As far as agression towards other dogs: my female got once in a tussle with a dog that attacked my brother (I know it sounds like he was a magnet for trouble). That stray dog was guarding a piece of the street. She did not do more damage than necessary, and let it go away, lesson learned.

Now I will admit she was something really special but with that being said I can guarantee that they will fight back if challenged. They are not, under any way, shape or form, the dog you would take to the doggie park. Another dog will start trouble and in the end it won't be "that crazy lab" but it will be "that lunatic with his big white pitbull" that is going to give explanations. They would do OK with a dog of the opposite sex in the same home.

When hunting, they have that tunnel vision that allows them to ignore other dogs. They are too excited for that hog smell. So, it's not like you'd lock 3 pitbulls in the back of your truck and go hunting - a sure way to have trouble on your hands. They are not crazily aggressive towards other dogs in such context, they are pack dogs, but, again, I would not trust unsupervised two dogs of the same sex. It seems to me dogs coming out of hunting lines are better-natured towards other dogs.

Since they are such big hunters, make sure you have serious fences, and there is no way for them to get to your neighbour's animals, or even somewhere int he field, where they can expire of heat stroking whilke holding a big prey that refuses to die. A good one doesn't have self-preservation high on the list.

While I would never trust a dog that has not been extensively tested / trained to put teeth into someone when needed (human), some are protective, and will rise to the occasion; some are not. You need to always be into control, there is no second guessing with any big, capable dog. The ideal dogo, per standard, is protective.

However, in Argentina they will borrow dogs when going to hunting, they will need to tollerate strangers putting hands on "their" hog and so on. This doesn't mean that they will necessarily let the same person walk in their yard like in a bar.

I won't tell stories about how "discerning" dogs are, and that they can always read intentions and won't bite your drunk firend that suddenly grabs and wrestles you. These are nice stories, IMHO; I would socialize a dogo as much as possible and pretty much the good genes will take over from there.

Trainability - you can deffinitely train one, but do not expect it to act like a German Shepherd that lives only to please you. They are more independet, but may become clingy. You seem to me to have more than enough experience to train one. They are smart enough, do not for a moment think that all I said above makes them brutes.

The key I found is: don't bore them with reperitive tasks that they won't see any point in doing. So keep the sessions somewhat short, varied, interesting. Don't overdo it. I guess they seem to me accessible because working with malamutes requires me a greater effort to outsmaret them than with dogos.

Health issues. Deafness (that's where BAER test comes into play - it records brain activity in response to sound stimuli, and can differentiate between unilateral and bilateral deafness; of course, there are other tests like dropping the keys when they don't suspect and see how the pups react, but an unilaterally deaf god cannot be picked up like that.) Some hip dysplasia - simply go with a breeder that has generations that have been tested, keep a pup lean, keep him on surfaces with good adherence and you should be fine.

The only other issue I recall healt-wise, is the Demodectic mange.

As for being popular. They were, at least back when I had one. Argentina was in a really bad economical situation. Almost a 3rd world country at that time, they wouldn't miss an opportunity to sell pups to westerners. Back in the US, every Dick and Harry was interested in tough dogs. I am afraid they were quite popular, and backyard breeders in for a quick buck were plenty. I don't know the situation today. I don't know what DACA (Dogo Arhention Club of America) is up to today; back then, the head of the group was a hunting kennel, and they were issuing hunting certificates to dogs that passed their tests. At one time, they were kicked out from the Club, and I don't know what the Club is doing today. Whether they are trying to keep the old, functional type of dog, not too big, not too heavy, or focusing more on the showy type, with less temperament, and most of the times bigger. Back then you could find dogs with proper structure and functional.

If all you want is a pet, and not for anything else...you can go with a well-bred, show dog; an excellent dog may become a pet just because it has a colored spot anywhere else on the coat than around an eye.

 

[Moonw]

Hope this helps, and please excuse my non-cursive way of writing; I was stopped a few times by things I had to attend to, so maybe I am jumping from one idea to another. Whatever is not clear, feel free to ask.

Again, I described the typical dogo, but as with humans, you can find couch potatoes among firecrackers .

 

[Moonw]

Ndoghouse, sounds like you got a nice dogo, with a typical temperament. Love the "little" bugger.

Speaking of tunnel vision and prey drive - have you seen this:
[video=youtube;99mSmWw6iuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99mSmWw6iuo[/video]
?

 

[Dobe_1]

Yep, not surprised by that type of drive.

When I was in high school, I hunted hogs with dogs. We used mixed breeds with a pack of three. Generally two would go for the head, the third for the rear. I was amazed how the dogs would work as a team, in an effort to subdue the hog. It was, of course, more of an effort in opportunity than an an actual plan. When one dog had the attention of the hog, the others would grab. When the hog would turn onto one dog, the others would attack. We hunted at that time before the protective vest were available, and what you described was simply the way things were. The hogs we killed were generally sold to pay for vet bills and dog food. I've seen some fairly bad cuts from a hog, but the dogs still kept fighting. It is amazing what you grow up with, and assume nothing of it. There is no way I would put one of my dogs through that. Yet, these dogs were like prize fighters, and were in their own world at the time.

I'm not looking for a killer dog or a macho dog, but I do like large breeds. I'm interested in the Dogo as well as others. I appreciate the feedback and details you have provided. It has given me a lot to think over.

 

[ndoghouse]

Hope this helps, and please excuse my non-cursive way of writing; I was stopped a few times by things I had to attend to, so maybe I am jumping from one idea to another. Whatever is not clear, feel free to ask.

Again, I described the typical dogo, but as with humans, you can find couch potatoes among firecrackers .

Great info Moon! Thanks again. Even tho mine is a bit passive you still have to keep in mind they can always let their instincts override their training. I try to make their training habit enough so that they dont follow through with their instinctual actions but you never know if you have achieved that truely until the moment arises. Hes OK with food and treats and such as far as aggression (minus rabbits) and hes actually fairly passive with other males. I watch him 24/7 when hes out and carry a pocket full of firecrackers and a lighter with me all the time. When the other dogs are barking and drowning out my call ill pop a few of them and he comes back. He gets a treat when he gets back but he still dont like the sound. One of us is shootin almost daily around here so every time they hear a shot they come inside.

Crazy video. Never seen a base jumping dogo.