Looking for knife maufacturer that uses a 10+ tonne press with a rounded end?

[swordmaster]

Hi. I can not remember the name of a knife maker that uses a fair size press that has on it's end what looks like a cigar tube that is heated very hot and basically presses down spins and carves out knife blades? .

Some of the claims have them at 30% sharper than normal knives.

Thanks

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

DiamondBlade Knives, which is a subdivision of Knives of Alaska. It's called "friction forging" and results in a stainless region along the edge.

 

[swordmaster]

DiamondBlade Knives, which is a subdivision of Knives of Alaska. It's called "friction forging" and results in a stainless region along the edge.

Thank you. Yes that is the name & company and videos i remembered.
Thanks again.

This time it's bookmarked notepadded and backed up.

Friction forging is interesting reminds me a little of the three parts of a Japanese blade
but i wonder if the diamonblade will handle battoning (splitting wood)?

 

[jdm61]

Friction stir forging.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Thank you. Yes that is the name & company and videos i remembered.
Thanks again.

This time it's bookmarked notepadded and backed up.

Friction forging is interesting reminds me a little of the three parts of a Japanese blade
but i wonder if the diamonblade will handle battoning (splitting wood)?

It should. The friction forging process apparently makes them quite capable of accepting lateral strain and shock for their level of hardness.

By the way, Japanese blades do not necessarily have three primary laminations. They often have fewer OR more, depending on the type of blade in question and the methods of the individual producing it. And laminated blades are found in almost every steel-using culture.

 

[jdm61]

Masumune forged his blades in the soshu kaite style using a billet consisting of 7 different individual pieces of steel and 3 different levels of carbon content. What I found most fascinating is how he used VERY thin layers of the medium carbon kawigane and high carbon hagane steel on the "flats" of the blade and a thin layer of hagane on the spine so that it appears that no part of the "soft" low carbon shigane core was exposed. I have thought that it would be interesting and probably VERY frustrating to try to reproduce that using low manganese modern medium and high carbon "plain" steels in the 1040 to 1050 range and W2, W1 or 1095 on the outside and 1018 or maybe even 1008 on the inside.

It should. The friction forging process apparently makes them quite capable of accepting lateral strain and shock for their level of hardness.

By the way, Japanese blades do not necessarily have three primary laminations. They often have fewer OR more, depending on the type of blade in question and the methods of the individual producing it. And laminated blades are found in almost every steel-using culture.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yup! Here are some different traditional methods of construction:

 

[jdm61]

Dat's da one!!! Think about the forging skill involved in keeping those thin layers even while drawing out a tachi sized blade. Nowadays, you might be able to cheat a little bit by using a rolling mill to stretch the billet evenly lengthwise and taper it once you got everything stuck together, but it would still be crazy difficult IMO.

Yup! Here are some different traditional methods of construction:

 

[bean_sips]

Yup! Here are some different traditional methods of construction:

Thanks for this post. Very interesting.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

No problem. I'm not aware pf any historical European/American usage of the other types, but the "Maru" "Kobuse" "Makuri" and Wariha Tetsu" types are all styles common in a wide variety of old Euro/USA-made knives, swords, and tools.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I have spoken with a guy who worked at the factory.

If I remember correctly, friction forging was originally used (and still is) for pipe fitting.

I worked in kind of the same industry (made diamond surfaced drill bits for drilling for oil, and mining applications), in the same city.



The knives have a very hard edge, and soft spine, as a direct result of the heat generated by the friction forging process.

D2 steel at that hardness should cut for a super long time between sharpening.

Seems like a real technological break through.

They just need some designs I would actually buy.

 

[jdm61]

I think the pipe fitting process would be friction stir welding, which is also used extensively in the aerospace industry for things like the fuel tanks of the new SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket and in lieu of riveting for some airplane "body panels" If I were to guess, I would say that the friction stir forging was an outgrowth of that..

I have spoken with a guy who worked at the factory.

If I remember correctly, friction forging was originally used (and still is) for pipe fitting.

I worked in kind of the same industry (made diamond surfaced drill bits for drilling for oil, and mining applications), in the same city.



The knives have a very hard edge, and soft spine, as a direct result of the heat generated by the friction forging process.

D2 steel at that hardness should cut for a super long time between sharpening.

Seems like a real technological break through.

They just need some designs I would actually buy.

 

[swordmaster]

It should. The friction forging process apparently makes them quite capable of accepting lateral strain and shock for their level of hardness.

By the way, Japanese blades do not necessarily have three primary laminations. They often have fewer OR more, depending on the type of blade in question and the methods of the individual producing it. And laminated blades are found in almost every steel-using culture.

Hello and thanks for the reply. This is making for a good thread.

As for the Japanese style is was referring to the three parts that combine from edge to spine . Being hard edge, the flexible spring like spine and the intermediate area that bonds the two together. I realize that it's an old technique that is rarely used any more but it's still my preferred style at least for some blades.

Laminates are another technique with generally good results, depending on what you require.

 

[swordmaster]

I have spoken with a guy who worked at the factory.

If I remember correctly, friction forging was originally used (and still is) for pipe fitting.

I worked in kind of the same industry (made diamond surfaced drill bits for drilling for oil, and mining applications), in the same city.



The knives have a very hard edge, and soft spine, as a direct result of the heat generated by the friction forging process.

D2 steel at that hardness should cut for a super long time between sharpening.

Seems like a real technological break through.

They just need some designs I would actually buy.

Yes i looked at their blades and your right the styles are not all that functional and the handles are not so ergonomic for a hunter or camper style knife. Reminds me a little of the Grohmann outdoor knives but even then the Grohmann blades are more functional.

Also according to diamond knives they use a proprietary D2 steel which makes sense as the metal would require either a higher quantity of either chromium or molybdenum to keep it from tearing or ripping in chunks during the friction process.

 

[swordmaster]

I think the pipe fitting process would be friction stir welding, which is also used extensively in the aerospace industry for things like the fuel tanks of the new SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket and in lieu of riveting for some airplane "body panels" If I were to guess, I would say that the friction stir forging was an outgrowth of that..

The boat manufacturer Princecraft in Canada uses the same friction welding technique with their rivets. They use a similar bit but with a concave center that spin-rubs over the rivet compacting and melting it. Makes a nice dome shape rivet head in the end.

Explains one of the reasons why the princecraft boats last so long.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think the rivet you're describing is just a spun rivet. It would be considered as friction welding unless the domed head then actually welded itself to the surrounding base metal. Seems to me that would kind of defeat the point of friction welding, which allows you to avoid using rivets that interfere with aero/hydrodynamics.

 

[swordmaster]

Actually they are friction welded i took the tour and tried the tool myself.. The flat side of the rivet (level to the hull) is on the outside. Once done you can't tell where the rivet ends and the hull begins on the inside and it's red hot and they have a small NG torch that maintains the heat for a few more seconds to keep from cooling too quickly and cracking.

No matter. This is about the diamond knives and which one i want to purchase.

 

[jeepin]

Its funny that nobody really talks about Diamond Blade anymore

 

[swordmaster]

Its funny that nobody really talks about Diamond Blade anymore

No idea. I spent quite a bit of time on youtube looking for the specific videos i seen before asking here. I tried many serach parameters and the only one that worked was " diamondbladeknives" (after the fact of asking here on BF).
It is an interesting process however as Bigfattyt said they have a very limited selection of blade & handle styles and if in the videos that is the only friction forge they have i can see why they have limitations on what sizes and shapes they can make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKNsQIYrdc&list=FLsqucob-3kfg36WUDHBrwXA&index=1&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdXIcenDkbA&feature=channel&list=UL

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Actually they are friction welded i took the tour and tried the tool myself.. The flat side of the rivet (level the the hull) is on the outside. Once done you can't tell where the rivet ends and the hull begins on the inside and it's red hot and they have a small NG torch the maintain the heat for a few more seconds to keep from cooling too quickly and cracking.

No matter. This is about the diamond knives and which one i want to purchase.

Ohhhhhhh gotcha'.

Its funny that nobody really talks about Diamond Blade anymore

I think it has to do with the fact that the tech is great but the designs are mediocre. Because of that, no one buys them and talks about how much they love them. I think that if they freshened up the look on 'em so they were a little more...refined...then they'd have a lot more success.