Looking for makers of pirate weapons

A

Abel

Joined
Dec 21, 2000
Messages
32
Hey all...

I'm wondering if anyone could provide me either names or links of any makers who produce in boarding axes or cutlasses, preferably in carbon steel. I plan on carrying the piece to Renaissance Faires, so it does need to look period. I would prefer not to have to resort to Atlanta Cutlery or Museum Replicas if I don't have to. I'm sure they are fine companies, but I just don't like their stuff.

Stephen
 
There is a website that I found called:

www.noquartergiven.net

This site is dedicated to the "pirate way of life," so you should be able to find lots of links to places that carry period 'style' weapons.

Hope this helps.

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Jason Cadden
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Webmaster
Smoky Mountain Knife Works, Inc.
 
Thanks for the responses so far, guys...I'll check out those sites.

Stephen
 
Oops...double post.

[This message has been edited by Abel (edited 05-18-2001).]
 
Lets see if this link works-
www.atar.com
Well I'm not sure how to paste a link.so if this doesn't work,you'll find the best maker of all types of swords in the bladeforums
links.Salamander Armoury.He makes the real deal,I was fortunate to own a custom broadsword of his a couple years ago.He also is author of several books,videos,and his blades have been in many movies.His name is
DR.Jim Hrisoulas.You would be very happy with one of his swords.Take care,Ralph
 
www.starfireswords.com They are a bit pricey, I don't know what you are looking to pay, but their service is good and their products. Also, check out www.netsword.com; it's a medieval-related forum with a live steel and training board. Ask there and I'm sure you'll get a lot of leads.



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Ó caíde sín don té sín nach mbaíneann sín dó.
"Since it’s no one’s concern, then no one should care."
 
Starfires really are relatively cheap price wise. They are also like swinging a railroad track. Poor balance and even poorer design.

Jim is a good choice. If you can afford him and if you can handle the wait. He most likely won't even talk about a custom order right now. He is in the middle of the only show he is doing this year. Jims style does not normaly include the cutlass, he prefers Northern European designs.

I don't do period work any longer (Renn Faire crowds are just too flakey, no offense).

Tony Swaton is always a good choice. Did the swords and hooks for Robin Williams "HOOK". He is here in So Cal.

A boarding axe can be improvised. There were some 1920-1930 fire axes that looked mighty close to the real thing. They are pretty cheap, or at least used to be. If you can find one, swap out the handle and it makes a good match.

And remember the "Hollywood" cutlass is not period for the 16th Century. The short curved blade with the closed clamshell guard (ala Capt. Morgan) was not common until the 18th century.

I can give you a laundry list of referances to period designs if you would like. Just drop me an e-mail

R.W.Clark
 
If, historical accuracy is the issue, there was no such thing as a pirate's weapon. Despite what you have seen from Hollywood pirates were certainly not issued a specific sword, nor were they likely to be trained in the refined forms of fencing. Not even in the British Navy was their a uniformed policy on dress and weapons until the decades after the defeat of Napoleon (after 1812).

These were desperate and usually impoverished people and their weapons consisted of whatever they were able to capture or improvise. Take a practical approach and you will end up with a more realistic solution.

P.G.W. Annis, in Naval Swords - British and American Naval Edged Weapons 1660-1815 (1970)writes:

"...the deck of a ship was about the last place where one could display swordsmanship and although many eighteenth-century gentlemen, including naval officers, wore small-swords and often had more than an inkling of how to use them, it is unlikely that they were used much at sea on other than occasions of ceremony... What did appear was the hanger, a weapon long established on shore. This became almost the badge of the professional seaman and a rather more ornate version was widely worn by the officers."

Hangers, at the time were used as sidearms by hunters, and some infantry units. They would have featured relatively wide single edge blades of about 16-24". It might be easier to find an 18th century pattern hanger than a "pirates?" sword.

N2S

 
not2sharp hit it pretty darn close on the nose. Big plus with the Hanger (not many people know its real name). However he is only partly right about the issuing of arms on board ship.

During the 16th and 17th centuries most nations did not "own" a navy. They conscripted privatly owned ships. These ships were not normally operated by the owner.

For instance Sir William Hawkins (West Indies Trading Company) owned over a dozen ships, but was rarely on any of them. All of his ships, including the flagship Gryphn, were conscripted to repell the Spanish Armada (at least what was left after the storm of 1586).

Only the ships themselves were owned by Hawkins. The navigational equipment was the private property of the pilots. And the arms (including cannons and cutlery) were owned by the Master Gunner or Quartermaster. It was very common for weapons to be ordered in mass. Hince the variety would be little. Generaly all boar pikes, boarding pikes, boarding axes and hangers would be alike. While not "offically" issued this did start to set a standard by the mid to late 16th century. As seen from both the Gryphn and (Sir Francis Drakes) Golden Hind, it became common pratice for all weapons except hangers to be secured in the ships armoury. The hangers were commonly kept mounted in twos above the ports and gunnels. This has also be found as common in ships as late as the 19th century that have been pulled out of the northern Atlantic near Norway.

But remember the sailors did not own these hangers. They were not allowed to take them with them on shore, except in marine detachments. Generally sailors owned the clothes that they wore and a few personal belongings normally including a good rope or rigging knife. The most common weapon you could expect from a sailor would have been a belay pin (and only if the Master Rigger did not see him take it).

Ship board marines would be highly trained in the use of weapons, but sailors would not have been and would be more likely to injure themselves or a shipmate with one.

Hollywood has done as much for the history of sailors and privateers and it has done for the history of the cowboy.

Don't mean to turn this into a history post. Don't know if you want to be acurate or just have fun. If you want to have fun go for it, never mind what anyone says. But if you want 100% acurate I can lead you there. You may be surprized at what you find. I will e-mail you a list of referance books and the contact number for a historical clothing expert. Between the two of use, we have well over 23 years of research under our belts.

R.W.Clark
 
R.W,

Thanks for the clarification. There is no need to excuse yourself for the history lesson, most advanced collector's are very much into the history of whatever they collect.

I understand from your post that the edge weapons on navu vessels were there for the use of the ship's marines, at least they were the ones trained in the weapon's use, but, how would this have worked on a merchant ship - where there were no marines? Would these naval practices have extended that far, and to rogue vessels, or would the practices on those vessels pretty much up to the owner.

The English navy seaman of the 16th and 17 century lived an existance that was very close to enslaved labor. This would not have been the case on pirate vessels where the crew served voluntarily, and very democratically, under a ship's articles.

Daniel Defoe (1660-1731) reported that at least abord Bartholomew Robert's ship the articles read (in part):

"Each man shall keep his piece, cutlass and pistols at all times clean and ready for action."

I would expect that the typical pirate crew would have been armed with a hodgepodge of weapons.

N2S

 
OK hang on we are going to go DEEP on this one.

There is a divide in Naval history, this takes place roughly around the mid to late 18th century. This is when most countries started to maintain an official navy, with the ship being owned by the government not just drafted into service.

Before the divide is when things are most hazy. All ships were merchant ships. There was no such thing as a fighting vessel (at least not in Europe). Ships were armed for protection from rouge ships or ships from other nations. Even the Golden Hind, which was the biggest baddest ship of its day (three gun decks) was mainly used for trade and trips to the Americas.

Every ships crew was made up of two differant types of men. Soldiers and sailors. Sailors kept the ship going straight (at least in thoery
smile.gif
). Soldiers or marines were there to fight yes, but also to gather food, and to protect the sailors any time they were on shore (any shore). Very often ships would have to weigh in at various islands to resupply. This could be for timber, food, or whatever they might have needed. These islands while mapped (most of the time) were not anywhere close to being settled. I remember reading a ships manifest once. It was headed to resupply the Colonies. In its hold it carried 16 full suits of armour. Never specified if these were for trade or for use by the marines, but interesting none the less.

Also before and after the divide, you had a little thing called a Letter Of Mark. This paper allowed you to attack any ship or outpost that belonged to another nation. In return you had to pay the crown a percentage of your gains. Drake, Raliegh, and Hawkins are just a few of the hundreds of ship owners with a Letter Of Mark. This however did not make them "pirates". Ships operating under Mark were refered to as Privateer Vessels (note the private, as in property). The only ships that were off limits were ships under there own flag. So if you had a British Mark, British ships were off limits. This however was not always followed, that is were "pirates" started to surface. These rouge ships were very rare in Europe. Most sailors could tell ships apart from miles away, this made hiding after a pirate attack nearly impossible. And most rouge captains were hunted down and hung very quickly.

(Side note, Most battles at sea occured with out a shot being fired. Ships could not risk the damage. A vessel would normally aproach a weaker vessel and raise a red flag (jolly rouce sp?)(that is were Jolly Roger came from). The weaker ship would almost always surrender ( or if it could, run). The crew of the attacking ship would board and help themselves to some (never all) of the ships stores. The two ships would then part with no problems.)

Now with the creation of the Royal Navy things were about to change. Brittian started to settle colonies throught the world. The Carribian, Indies and South Pacific were the hot spots for the "modern" pirate. With heavly armed fighting vessels patroling all major trade routes, merchant vessels gave up carrying heavy loads of defensive weapons. The could move faster, carry more cargo and make more money. The risk to rouge ships dropped and their activity grew. The chances of being caught also dropped due to the seemingly unlimited hidden coves in which they could hide from patrol ships. This is the golden age of the Pirate. These crews were indeed made up of the worst of the worst. And since the ships "owner" was also normally the captian, the way things occured on board changed. No longer did the Gunner or Quartermaster provide arms for the ships. Each man supplied his own. So it made for a true hodge podge of weapons. By this time the Cutlass was on the rise. Its dramaticly curved blade gave it a great advantage over the waining hanger in the confines of a ships deck. And its full cup hilt provided a great deal of protection for the user. You also did not need a great deal of training or skill to be deadly with it. While bows and crossbows were still more common, the inventions of the Doglock, Snapounce, Flintlock and Percussion Cap made the use of firearms at sea more practical.

Pirate captians still did not like to take undue risks in battle. The prefered method was to make your first battle as brutle as possible, then other ships seeing your flag would prefer to surrender and lose all their stores. It was not uncommon for entire crews to be skinned and hung from the rigging, or beheaded and impailed on boarding pikes. Very often after such a display the pirate ships flag would be drawn on the deck of the victims ship.

(Side note: there is not one single historical referance to the all to often seen skull and cross bones, this was first used by Hollywood and made famous by Disney. However the themes of skulls, bones, blood drops, and skeletons were very common and very popular.)

Word would spread like wildfire, and that pirate ship normally would never shed another drop of blood.

These are of course the most common "normals". There will always be some referances that seem to slap in the face of the above information. In historical times just as today, we are made up of many people cultures and personalities, so some discrepancies are bound to arise.

BOY, I now have a killer headache. So ends this session of Pirates 101.
biggrin.gif


R.W.Clark
 
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