I'm an 18 year old chef who recently started making knives. So far I've made 7 knives with 1084 as it was easy to heat treat, however it's very prone to corrosion. I bought some aeb-l thinking it was simple to heat treat with a gas forge however from more research it seems a lot harder than expected. I have bought steel foil, aluminium bars and a pyrometer however i don't think i could control the temperature well enough to get the right hrc. I'm working on a pretty tight budget so probably couldn't afford a proper heat treat oven, but i'm not ready to give up on making a chef knife with at least near perfect rust resistance. Looking for any easier to heat treat stainless that could still hold a good edge, or carbon steels with good edge retention and corrosion resistance. Any and all advice would be appreciated and i would be willing to spend about £400 on a heat treat oven but after looking around this seems unlikely.
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looking for steel suggestions/advice
- Thread starter J Steele
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Welcome J Steele, Fill out your profile so we know where you live and a bit about you.
You can't do stainless steel HT in a forge ... you will need to send stainless blades out for HT. You want a proper hardness and internal condition for blades that will be used for culinary purposes, as they need the best HT and edge holding.
For a carbon steel that you can do with a forge ( it would still be best to send it out) try Pro-cut.
For stainless, try magna-cut.
Both these steels were developed by Dr. Larrin Thomas for knives. They both make superb culinary blades.
Pop's Knife supply carries both in stock.
You can't do stainless steel HT in a forge ... you will need to send stainless blades out for HT. You want a proper hardness and internal condition for blades that will be used for culinary purposes, as they need the best HT and edge holding.
For a carbon steel that you can do with a forge ( it would still be best to send it out) try Pro-cut.
For stainless, try magna-cut.
Both these steels were developed by Dr. Larrin Thomas for knives. They both make superb culinary blades.
Pop's Knife supply carries both in stock.
ScarFoot
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There are multiple heat treating services available as well. You can cut out your blanks and send them to be treated professionally. I’ve never done it but I know several folks who do.
Also there are a lot of nice culinary knives made out of carbon steel. The user just has to be conscious about wiping the blade periodically during use. My wife and I both love to cook and watch a lot cooking shows. I’ve noticed Japanese chefs tend to wipe their blades religiously. I watched a show about sushi and the chef was using a beautiful carbon steel knife. When not being used it was stored tip down in mineral oil. During use it was wiped off after every cut.
Also there are a lot of nice culinary knives made out of carbon steel. The user just has to be conscious about wiping the blade periodically during use. My wife and I both love to cook and watch a lot cooking shows. I’ve noticed Japanese chefs tend to wipe their blades religiously. I watched a show about sushi and the chef was using a beautiful carbon steel knife. When not being used it was stored tip down in mineral oil. During use it was wiped off after every cut.
Alex Topfer
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I've never found carbon steel to be problem in the kitchen. My understanding is the martensitic stainless steels don't have the same degree of corrosion resistance as something like 316, I've seen corrosion on some cheap ones along the edge.
Can you get stainless clad carbon steel billets over there?
Can you get stainless clad carbon steel billets over there?
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I say send it out. Even make friends with knife makers and see if one of them will do it for you.
yes i shouldn’t have any issues with getting that in the uk thanks i’ll definitely look into it, are there any steel combinations that you would recommend for a san mai billet?
thanks for the advice it seems like sending it out for heat treatment is the best option at the moment and the magna cut seems great after some research definitely going to try and get some soon.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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They don't carry Magnacut (yet) but GFS is a great supplier in the UK. (Ground Flat Stock)
Alex Topfer
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Nah, sorry mate. I only work with carbon steels
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Hi J Steel,
I too am in the UK. Are you on Edgematters? UK forum, need to register to read, but being UK based you will get good advice and maybe make local contacts that it is easier for you to meet. Mark down 27th September, Sharp Show just south east of Coventry.
Regarding cooking knives. I have made several using AEBL and it is excellent. The stain resistance is more than good enough and the benefit that Magnacut will give in abrasive edge retention vs the difficulty in finishing is I think debatable for what you are doing. I bought two bits of 12" magnacut from the Bladeshow, along with some Procut. I don't have a kiln and am expecting getting the magnacut heat treated any time soon will be a huge pain in the butt. Remember that the new laws make it a lottery to try shipping knife blades into the UK and I don't know how one would send even blanks out to the US. Until there is sufficient quantity in circulation in the UK I would not expect the heat treaters here to be running recopies for it. The folk I talked to at Blade said to expect Magnacut to be about as difficult to finish as D2, not really a good one for hand sanding, and to expect to use more belts than RWL34 (lots more than O-1, AEBL or 1084).
If you wanted a higher spec stainless than AEBL, RWL34 finishes very nicely, but for kitchen knives I don't think you are in any way short changing anything with AEBL. There were chaps at Blade with beautiful, thin ground, full size chef's knives in AEBL, $400-$500. I even met one chap who was forging it for his kitchen knives! It is very tough even at high hardness, which translates into a very thin edge, and very easy to grind and sharpen. You can get it treated by Clarkes Knives in the UK. I haven't used them myself, having found another maker who would do them for me 60-61HRC. Could have probably gone higher but the maker was doing his own at 59-60HRC and I didn't want to push him out of his zone.
Sandvik 14C28N is meant to be a little bit more corrosion resistant than AEBL. GFS have both, as well as Sandvik 10C28Mo2 which is a step up from 14C28N, with yet more corrosion resistance.
In my experience, my O-1 knives have rusted from leaving the tips sitting in a drop of water, leaving water on the blade, or leaving water attracting gunk where blade meets handle. The latter can be mitigated with good design and execution, bevel the front of the handle 20-30 degrees back off 90, and it is MUCH easier to run a cloth down the joint to clean and dry. The AEBL hasn't rusted for me or my dad...For that matter, my dad uses one in 12C27 every day and that doesn't rust in his kitchen....although he beats on it and gets the edge to roll, something he does less with the harder, thinner, AEBL.
Best of luck
Chris
I too am in the UK. Are you on Edgematters? UK forum, need to register to read, but being UK based you will get good advice and maybe make local contacts that it is easier for you to meet. Mark down 27th September, Sharp Show just south east of Coventry.
Regarding cooking knives. I have made several using AEBL and it is excellent. The stain resistance is more than good enough and the benefit that Magnacut will give in abrasive edge retention vs the difficulty in finishing is I think debatable for what you are doing. I bought two bits of 12" magnacut from the Bladeshow, along with some Procut. I don't have a kiln and am expecting getting the magnacut heat treated any time soon will be a huge pain in the butt. Remember that the new laws make it a lottery to try shipping knife blades into the UK and I don't know how one would send even blanks out to the US. Until there is sufficient quantity in circulation in the UK I would not expect the heat treaters here to be running recopies for it. The folk I talked to at Blade said to expect Magnacut to be about as difficult to finish as D2, not really a good one for hand sanding, and to expect to use more belts than RWL34 (lots more than O-1, AEBL or 1084).
If you wanted a higher spec stainless than AEBL, RWL34 finishes very nicely, but for kitchen knives I don't think you are in any way short changing anything with AEBL. There were chaps at Blade with beautiful, thin ground, full size chef's knives in AEBL, $400-$500. I even met one chap who was forging it for his kitchen knives! It is very tough even at high hardness, which translates into a very thin edge, and very easy to grind and sharpen. You can get it treated by Clarkes Knives in the UK. I haven't used them myself, having found another maker who would do them for me 60-61HRC. Could have probably gone higher but the maker was doing his own at 59-60HRC and I didn't want to push him out of his zone.
Sandvik 14C28N is meant to be a little bit more corrosion resistant than AEBL. GFS have both, as well as Sandvik 10C28Mo2 which is a step up from 14C28N, with yet more corrosion resistance.
In my experience, my O-1 knives have rusted from leaving the tips sitting in a drop of water, leaving water on the blade, or leaving water attracting gunk where blade meets handle. The latter can be mitigated with good design and execution, bevel the front of the handle 20-30 degrees back off 90, and it is MUCH easier to run a cloth down the joint to clean and dry. The AEBL hasn't rusted for me or my dad...For that matter, my dad uses one in 12C27 every day and that doesn't rust in his kitchen....although he beats on it and gets the edge to roll, something he does less with the harder, thinner, AEBL.
Best of luck
Chris