Looking into making a press

lamontjb

lamontjb

Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Messages
105
Hello, was wondering if anyone can help me out with making a press. More specifically, if someone can point me in the right direction and show me the specific type of hydraulic cyclinder and pump I will need to use. I have included some information I have already found (cause it might help others).

I have already ordered a set of plans offered on Don Fogg's Website (waiting to recieve it in the mail): http://www.dfoggknives.com/hydralic.htm

I also found this website to be useful to explain how to calculate the # of ton based on my cyclinder and pump:
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.crafts.metalworking/2005-12/msg06011.html
Basically the area of the cyclinder times the pressure of the pump = # of tons. In his example, a 6" diameter cyclinder with a 2000 psi = 28 tons.

Lastely, this article was useful to tell me the details of the pump I will need:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528942
Which adds that I need 11GPM minium... not sure why, but I'll go with it.

So I searched the internet looking for a hydraulic pump with 11GPM, around 2000 psi, and a cyclinder of around 5" diameter. This is where I get lost because I see many different types of hydraulic cyclinders and pumps.

I have found an example of a motor with 5 HP, 11 GPM, max pressure of 3000 psi. however it has multiple stages and other variables. Is this the right direction? How does a rotating motor operate the cyclinder?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Haldex-Hydrauli...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
 
Hello John,

The plans on Don Fogg's site are very good. I'm looking forward to seeing what responses come back to this thread. At some point I too will be building a similar press. In the mean time I built one of these and it is doing what I need it to do for now --> http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6214500#post6214500

My favorite press I've seen is Joe Caswell's press. You can see what he did to his in the bladeforum link you have in your post above. Automating the ram is a great idea.

Eric
 
Last edited:
Sounds like your going in the right direction. the two stage pump basicly shifts gears on its own so it moves fast when it neads to and slows down for more power when there is resistance. A good pump would be the Barnes Haldex two stage pumps. They come in 11, 13, 16, 22, and 28 gpm. Northerntool.com is a good place to buy the haldex pumps.

An electric or gas motor runs a pump. The flow from the pump is controlled with a valve. From the valve the flow goes to a cylinder or a tank. The valve neads to be an open center valve. It would have three positions. position 1 is like nuetral and the flow goes back to the tank and not to the cylinder, this is actually the center position on the valve. position 2 the flow goes to the top of the cylinder and the presure causes the cylinder to move down. position 3 and the flow goes to the bottom of the cylinder causing it to go back up. The tank is a resivour that must hold the total volume of fluid, and then some, of the entire system. Most pumps do not draw fluid so the tank should be above the pump. On a "open center" system when the valve is in the center position the fluid flows down to the pump is presurized by the pump and flows through the valve back to the tank.

So you know there are hydraulic motors that run off hydraulic presure. The essentialy turn that presure into mechanical power.

I hope this helps I wanted to try and explain basicly how it works. So you may better understand what your looking at. The gpm of the pump and the size of the cylinder must be mached to have the correct amount of speed and power. Just be sure you understand what your doing 100% before you attempt this. It can be very dangerous.

good luck
 
One tidbit that I've been told is if you want an automated ram that can be set to reciprocate at a set speed, you need a single stage pump. Double stage will mess up your timing. Of course this is if you wish to automate your press movement.

Eric
 
Ok ok, I think I'm figureing this out. So the motor I thought was a 5HP is actually a pump which requires a minimum of 5HP and requires 3600 RPM. Is that correct?

Also found this hydraulic cylinder. Not saying I would purchase new, but I'm assuming I'm on the right track with this cyclinder (5" bore at 3000 psi yields a 30 ton press right?). Also, does the stroke length matter? I figure 10" is plenty.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309397_200309397

Couple other questions, what determines the speed? When a user in a thread said "2 IPS minimum" I figure thats a speed variable. So what determines the IPS? Is that based on the GPM? Or maybe its based on the HP of the motor, which is that same user stated 10 HP min.

So, just a quick run down on cyclinder, motor, and pump:
Cylinder 5" bore 3000 psi - http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309397_200309397
Pump 11GPM (requires 5HP min and 3600 RPM - http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321051_200321051
Motor 5HP 3600 RPM- http://www.emotorpro.com/5hp3600rpmcenturyaircompressormotor-b386.aspx

Brand new (without shopping around), these three items cost around $700 with most of the cost going into the Motor (and I have a feeling I want a better motor). I just want to know if I'm matching the items correctly or if I'm screwing something up. I have learned allot in just one day, so really, thanks again.
 
Hi John,
You may have seen reference to the Batson press manual in your searches. It's really worth getting a copy to answer all your questions and more. I believe it's available from Don Fogg and at the ABS website.

Best of luck, and thanks for your service, Craig
 
Jim Batson's Book on making a forging press is almost a must have even if you purchase a press. I covers all forces and calculations needed to keep things safe, productive and done right the first time. I have purchased 2 from Don Fogg. He gets them out really fast and worth every penny.
 
lamontjb said:
Ok ok, I think I'm figureing this out. So the motor I thought was a 5HP is actually a pump which requires a minimum of 5HP and requires 3600 RPM. Is that correct?

Also found this hydraulic cylinder. Not saying I would purchase new, but I'm assuming I'm on the right track with this cyclinder (5" bore at 3000 psi yields a 30 ton press right?). Also, does the stroke length matter? I figure 10" is plenty.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309397_200309397

Couple other questions, what determines the speed? When a user in a thread said "2 IPS minimum" I figure thats a speed variable. So what determines the IPS? Is that based on the GPM? Or maybe its based on the HP of the motor, which is that same user stated 10 HP min.

So, just a quick run down on cyclinder, motor, and pump:
Cylinder 5" bore 3000 psi - http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200309397_200309397
Pump 11GPM (requires 5HP min and 3600 RPM - http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321051_200321051
Motor 5HP 3600 RPM- http://www.emotorpro.com/5hp3600rpmcenturyaircompressormotor-b386.aspx

Brand new (without shopping around), these three items cost around $700 with most of the cost going into the Motor (and I have a feeling I want a better motor). I just want to know if I'm matching the items correctly or if I'm screwing something up. I have learned allot in just one day, so really, thanks again.
Click to expand...


ram speed is determined by gpm and the surface area of the piston. so if you have a sixteen gpm pump and a five inch cylinder. you would first figure the area of the piston; 3.14x2.5x2.5=19.625, Square inches. so to move the ram one inch takes 19.625 cubic inches of fluid. there are 231 cubic inches in a gallon, so a gallon of fluid will move the ram 231/19.625=11.77 inches a sixteen gpm pump will move the ram 11.77x16=188.33 inches in one minute or 3.14 inches per second. when the pumps shifts into high pressure the ram will only move about one third as fast.

I have a two stage pump and a six and a half inch cylinder on my press and cannot detect when the pump shifts from high volume low pressure to high pressure low volume and it will mash a hot billet like it isn't even there. I really have to be careful not to over press things with the speed and power this press has.
 
Hi John,

I built an h press a couple of years ago. I used the hydraulics recommeded by Indian George.

Here is a parts list and price of the pieces that I got from IG's recommendation.


PARTS LISTING
SUPPLIER PART# DISCRIPTION COMMENTS
From NORTHERN
1053-C161 BARNES 2 STAGE PUMP -11GPM $144.99
2010-C161 PRINCE STANDARD 4-WAY CONTROL VALVE $79.99
4051-C161 7 GALLONS HYRAULIC OIL TANK $89.99MUST CLEAN THE INSIDE WELL
4022-C161 RETURN LINE FILTER $27.99
4010-C161 SUCTION STRIANER $16.99THIS GOES INTO THE TANK
FITTINGS AND HOSES YOU WILL NEED 3 HI- PRESSURE HOSES AND LOW PRESSURE HOSE FOR THE RETURN.
53606-C161 GLYCERIN FILLED GAUGE 0-3000PSI
From SURPLUS CENTER
10-1485 ELECTRIC MOTOR I USE A 3 HP AT 3250 RPMS
9-1197-08 HYDRAULIC CYLINDER $ 256.95, 5" BORE X 8" STROKE 2” rod dia. 3000 psi max
Total = $616.90

IG's is a single beam http://www.indiangeorgesknives.com/building_of_bertha.html

Mine is an H press http://tbladeforge.com/images/Press.JPG

The prices may have changed and Surplus Center does not always have the parts available.

Both IG's and my press work very well, although mine is a little under powered, I had to turn the max pressure down so it wouldn't stall the motor.

Good luck constructing a press, they're real nice to have for pattern welding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top