Looking to start a little knife maintenance business while I'm overseas.

[mistahARK]

The last few days I've been doing hours and hours of research on knife maintenance for the new Bali I plan on getting soon (still working out which one I want!). In the process of figuring out the best way to clean, lubricate, and sharpen whatever my new baby will be, I thought, hey; I'm gonna be surrounded by hundreds of soldiers for the next year or so, and what is one thing every single one of them has? A knife, and or multitool.

Also, most of the guys I know absolutely beat on their edges, never sharpen them, have no idea what bevel angle to sharpen to, and never clean or lube their hinges. Most have rust somewhere on their piece and gunk inside the handle.

So, being the brilliant entrepreneur I am, I figured I could make a little cash on the side, while also putting a smile on my fellow soldiers' faces when they see their trusty sidekick, restored to its factory brilliance. Nay, exceeding that.

Obviously, there will be a bit of a start-up cost to do this right. This is where you guys come in, let me know what you guys think of the things I'm planning on using, specifically where I could improve on them. I'm pretty new to all this, but I think I've got a pretty good handle for a beginner.

Without further adieu, my plan.

1. I'll need a fast, consistent, and accurate way to get a good edge. I figure the Edge Pro Apex 1 (165$) should be beyond great for any field knife or EDC. This will allow me to get either the researched factory edge, or give them a more aggressive, field-able edge that will last longer, all while ensuring I am not varying in bevel angle.

2. Tools. I just got some Wahi T6-15 Torx for my current bali, I'm thinking I'll need a T5 as well. Are there any other common screws that I'll need to pull?

3. I'll need some cleaning supplies. As of right now, I was just planning on using some isopropyl and qtips for cleaning, 0000 steel wool for rust spots, and refinishing satin/brushed surfaces, and tuf-glide for protectant. Came to about 30$ for a good starter supply. I saw some people used solvents, is this necessary?

3. Lubrication. I'm stuck between just using Tuf-Glide here too, and doing it the right way with Miltec-1 and a heat gun. Heatgun+Miltec=45$, but also a lot more time, and the possibility of jacking up someone's finish.

4. A way to charge. We aren't really allowed cash overseas, so I'll have to use something like a Square to use with a mobile phone over the wifi while I'm on-base. This is about 10$.

So altogether, this will run me 250$, startup. I thought about charging 5$ for a normal quick-sharpen, 10$ for a rebevel of a dinged edge, and 15$ for a complete clean and lube job. That way, I'll be making about 20/hr or more per piece, which would mean I could pay all that off in 15 knives or less...

Alright so that's my plan. Criticism is welcomed.

 

[REK Knives]

Well that's quite a post!! Sounds like you have really been thinking hard and doing your research on this

The EP apex will be perfect... as long as you have a smooth surface you can use the suction cup base on. When you said "field" not sure exactly what you mean and what you will have out there.

On the tools, get 2 x of the torx bits... some knives use dual fasteners (same one on each side) and you will have to use the same bit simultaneously to get the scales apart. Also you will probably need a flathead screwdriver, one large one small (they come in handy when you need to pry scales apart or clean or something), and a smallish philips head for some knives like emersons. Don't worry about anything else, that should do you good. I'm sure you have a multi-too too, as pliers will be needed in some cases as well.

Cleaner and lube... I use acetone all the time as it REALLY cuts gunk fast and degreases everything. Not sure how isopropyl will work for this but it will probably work fine. Tuf-glide will work pretty good for a protectant... i haven't been that satisfied w/ it for a lube though but ymmv. I wouldn't mess w/ the heat gun and all that, just throw some tuf glide in there and call it a day.

hope this helps.

 

[mistahARK]

Thanks a ton! I just replaced isopropyl with acetone, and got another set of torx and some wiha screwdrivers as well. You seem like you really know what you're talking about.

I'll wait until I get over there before I get the edge pro, so I don't have to find room for it in my already limited space.

 

[Jason B.]

Acetone can melt plastic and discolor other materials so be careful.

I'm not a guided sharpener type but I agree with the EP, it will make it quick and easy. It will be important to have the right stones though, two or three Atoma 140 for bevel setting work and Shapton Glass 500 to sharpen. You could add the 2000 for times when you want a more polished edge but for 99% of knives the SG500 is a perfect cutting edge.

Scratch the steel wool and get fine scotch brite.

For lube use WD-40, it works fine, it's cheap, and will work long enough as these tools will need service long before it stops working. I have been using it in place of my much favored Benchmade Blue lube because I really don't see a difference. If anything, the WD-40 attracts less pocket lint. Oh, it also works well to flush the pivot on folders.

Tools,

Go cheap, husky tools makes a interchangeable torx driver. When it gets stolen or lost you won't cry.

How to charge?

$5 for folders, $10 for fixed blades up to the kabar size. K.I.S.S, solders are poor and your not a pro. Also, bevel setting and small edge damage repair is part of sharpening, only heavily chipped edges or broken tips get charged extra. Both of which the EP is not set up to handle anyways.

 

[TravisH]

Thanks a ton! I just replaced isopropyl with acetone, and got another set of torx and some wiha screwdrivers as well. You seem like you really know what you're talking about.

I'll wait until I get over there before I get the edge pro, so I don't have to find room for it in my already limited space.

Surely you've discussed what to expect at your new duty station with someone who's been there, yes?

You need to make sure there's an infrastructure there to support your off-duty activities.

~ if cash is not allowed, how do you buy anything at the PX or hadji shops? if there's WiFi, there's probably an ATM.

~ mobile phone? you sure there's service? allowed to even have one?

~ how you gonna get acetone? take it with you? on a plane? thru the mail?

 

[REK Knives]

Acetone can melt plastic and discolor other materials so be careful.

I'm not a guided sharpener type but I agree with the EP, it will make it quick and easy. It will be important to have the right stones though, two or three Atoma 140 for bevel setting work and Shapton Glass 500 to sharpen. You could add the 2000 for times when you want a more polished edge but for 99% of knives the SG500 is a perfect cutting edge.

Scratch the steel wool and get fine scotch brite.

For lube use WD-40, it works fine, it's cheap, and will work long enough as these tools will need service long before it stops working. I have been using it in place of my much favored Benchmade Blue lube because I really don't see a difference. If anything, the WD-40 attracts less pocket lint. Oh, it also works well to flush the pivot on folders.

Tools,

Go cheap, husky tools makes a interchangeable torx driver. When it gets stolen or lost you won't cry.

How to charge?

$5 for folders, $10 for fixed blades up to the kabar size. K.I.S.S, solders are poor and your not a pro. Also, bevel setting and small edge damage repair is part of sharpening, only heavily chipped edges or broken tips get charged extra. Both of which the EP is not set up to handle anyways.

Jason is spot on about the acetone... just use it w/ judgment =) if you can get a can of the green brake kleen that will last you forever and can also flush pivots very well.

But on the tools I would go as good of quality as you can, simply because I used to have issues w/ cheap torx bits snapping/bending on me all the time, and it may be difficult for you to get a replacement over there. Wiha are known to be good, but personally I use Wera as I have snapped a Wiha tip - not a Wera. But they are both very similar in quality.

 

[killgar]

Many knife manufacturers use loctite on the screws. The dreaded red loctite often requires heat to soften it, otherwise the screw heads can get stripped, and then you're screwed.

I consider a good soldering iron to be an integral part of my "knife dismantling kit". I use it to heat the screws and soften the loctite before trying to turn them.

I also include a tube of blue loctite in my overall kit. You might find it necessary to use loctite to prevent screws from working their way out from use.

If you remove the screws from a guys knife, "breaking" the manufacturers loctite in the process, and if you don't add new loctite to the screws when you reassemble the knife, I would say that you are responsible if the screws get loose and become lost. If you "break" the factory loctite, you should replace it.

Also, many knives don't use torx screws. Many use allen/socket screws. And then there are many others that use more exotic screws. The wider the variety of bits/drivers you have, the more knives you will be capable of servicing.

Depending on how many services you want to be able to perform, you might also want some diamond hones. For example, if a guy breaks the tip off his blade, diamond hones can be used like files to re-profile the tip. Such hones are also great for grinding out a chip in the edge. I think that coarse and extra-coarse DMT Diasharp hones are a good choice (that's what I use).

Small plastic containers or ziploc sandwich bags are also great for storing screws and other little knife parts after dismantling a knife. You wouldn't want to loose anything. And those tiny screws, etc can easily get lost if you let them sit around loose.

 

[chrisk91]

You've got a good plan there. Make sure you get some extra coarse stones with your EP. I suggest the moldmaster line from Congress tools. They cut super fast and don't dish quickly. For lubricant, I suggest finish line extreme flouro or nano oil. Otherwise, you have great ideas for tools and cleaning. I will second the loctite suggestion as well. Finally, I would find some good rust inhibitor for those customers that do not take care of their blades. Frog lube is excellent in this regard, and is food safe!

My 2 cents.

 

[aquaman67]

Having deployed to Iraq in 2006 - 2007

You'd be surprised how many "good ol' boys" bring a stone and just sit around sharpening knives in their down time. Almost everyone knows someone who can sharpen a knife.

I'm just saying it may not be a lucrative as one would think. But I wish you good luck.

 

[mistahARK]

Good points all. Thanks for all the ideas! I've decided that if I'm gonna need to heat the screw, to get it off, why not use Miltec-1 to lube it properly before loctiting it back on? So I'm gonna go for a soldering iron, red loctite, and miltec-1 for lube. Does anyone have experience with using Tuf-Glide as a lubricant?

And why would the EP not be able to fix a chipped blade or tip? I figure with a coarse enough stone, like the ones recommended in this thread, I should be able to grind anything down enough to fix it. This is just me speaking theoretically, of course.

 

[JR88FAN]

Good points all. Thanks for all the ideas! I've decided that if I'm gonna need to heat the screw, to get it off, why not use Miltec-1 to lube it properly before loctiting it back on? So I'm gonna go for a soldering iron, red loctite, and miltec-1 for lube. Does anyone have experience with using Tuf-Glide as a lubricant?

And why would the EP not be able to fix a chipped blade or tip? I figure with a coarse enough stone, like the ones recommended in this thread, I should be able to grind anything down enough to fix it. This is just me speaking theoretically, of course.

Change that to BLUE Loctite.....!

I would get a high quality Torx set, You could lose it, but that's a better scenario then shredding screws.
Sizes you must have are T10/T8/T6.
These are the standards for just about any folder that is using Torx.

 

[fsatsil]

Good points all. Thanks for all the ideas! I've decided that if I'm gonna need to heat the screw, to get it off, why not use Miltec-1 to lube it properly before loctiting it back on? So I'm gonna go for a soldering iron, red loctite, and miltec-1 for lube. Does anyone have experience with using Tuf-Glide as a lubricant?

And why would the EP not be able to fix a chipped blade or tip? I figure with a coarse enough stone, like the ones recommended in this thread, I should be able to grind anything down enough to fix it. This is just me speaking theoretically, of course.

Why not save some money and use whatever gun oil you have on hand to lubricate and protect the knives?

The EP can work for repairing damaged edges but I'm not to sure how well it would handle a broken tip. A benchstone will almost always be faster and more versatile so I highly reccomend getting at least an 8in coarse/fine Norton Crystalon to go with the EP Apex.

 

[fsatsil]

Change that to BLUE Loctite.....!

I would get a high quality Torx set, You could lose it, but that's a better scenario then shredding screws.
Sizes you must have are T10/T8/T6.
These are the standards for just about any folder that is using Torx.

+1
You can get a high quality Torx set ilke the Wiha 36392 for under $20 so there's really no excuse to buy cheap no name tools.

 

[Creynaed]

Surely you've discussed what to expect at your new duty station with someone who's been there, yes?

You need to make sure there's an infrastructure there to support your off-duty activities.

~ if cash is not allowed, how do you buy anything at the PX or hadji shops? if there's WiFi, there's probably an ATM.

~ mobile phone? you sure there's service? allowed to even have one?

~ how you gonna get acetone? take it with you? on a plane? thru the mail?

I think what he intends to do is run a cube and a phone that is connected to WIFI not over cell service. When I was overseas in 06-07 WIFI access was harder to come across than cash. In fact, cash was king and there was only so much you could get from finance at a time. There were some ATM's that were installed a little before I left. There were even times when the PX had no internet access and couldn't accept cards but they could still take cash.

Regardless of what you are being told, I would bring cash with you. I have found that the US dollar is pretty much accepted everywhere, especially when there are US soldiers in the area.

Many of the other supplies you would need/want can be ordered online and shipped to you. One guy in my unit bought a 42" TV from best buy and had it shipped to him. I would order snacks and hygiene supplies online since it could be difficult at times to get to the PX while mail was usually brought directly to you. I would not pack very much of these supplies to bring with you initially since space is limited when traveling. If you place an order as soon as you get there everything would likely be showing up just as you are settling in. Most of the time it only took 1.5-2 weeks for shipping sometimes things would show up about a week after you ordered them.

You could also take payment with items/food. There is going to be things that you would want to purchase and you could trade your services for those items if cash is not available.

 

[Jason B.]

I don't understand the need for fancy lubes and soldering irons to remove screws, I've sharpened thousands of folders and never needed any of that. I've also rarely found the need to take anyone's knife apart, your just asking for trouble doing a bunch of unneeded work. I would stick to just putting a useable edge on the knife given to you.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

The last few days I've been doing hours and hours of research on knife maintenance for the new Bali I plan on getting soon (still working out which one I want!). In the process of figuring out the best way to clean, lubricate, and sharpen whatever my new baby will be, I thought, hey; I'm gonna be surrounded by hundreds of soldiers for the next year or so, and what is one thing every single one of them has? A knife, and or multitool.

Also, most of the guys I know absolutely beat on their edges, never sharpen them, have no idea what bevel angle to sharpen to, and never clean or lube their hinges. Most have rust somewhere on their piece and gunk inside the handle.

So, being the brilliant entrepreneur I am, I figured I could make a little cash on the side, while also putting a smile on my fellow soldiers' faces when they see their trusty sidekick, restored to its factory brilliance. Nay, exceeding that.

Obviously, there will be a bit of a start-up cost to do this right. This is where you guys come in, let me know what you guys think of the things I'm planning on using, specifically where I could improve on them. I'm pretty new to all this, but I think I've got a pretty good handle for a beginner.

Without further adieu, my plan.

1. I'll need a fast, consistent, and accurate way to get a good edge. I figure the Edge Pro Apex 1 (165$) should be beyond great for any field knife or EDC. This will allow me to get either the researched factory edge, or give them a more aggressive, field-able edge that will last longer, all while ensuring I am not varying in bevel angle.

2. Tools. I just got some Wahi T6-15 Torx for my current bali, I'm thinking I'll need a T5 as well. Are there any other common screws that I'll need to pull?

3. I'll need some cleaning supplies. As of right now, I was just planning on using some isopropyl and qtips for cleaning, 0000 steel wool for rust spots, and refinishing satin/brushed surfaces, and tuf-glide for protectant. Came to about 30$ for a good starter supply. I saw some people used solvents, is this necessary?

3. Lubrication. I'm stuck between just using Tuf-Glide here too, and doing it the right way with Miltec-1 and a heat gun. Heatgun+Miltec=45$, but also a lot more time, and the possibility of jacking up someone's finish.

4. A way to charge. We aren't really allowed cash overseas, so I'll have to use something like a Square to use with a mobile phone over the wifi while I'm on-base. This is about 10$.

So altogether, this will run me 250$, startup. I thought about charging 5$ for a normal quick-sharpen, 10$ for a rebevel of a dinged edge, and 15$ for a complete clean and lube job. That way, I'll be making about 20/hr or more per piece, which would mean I could pay all that off in 15 knives or less...

Alright so that's my plan. Criticism is welcomed.

Ive had the same plan.
Only thing i would suggest is to use a Ken Onion WorkSharp instead of all the Knife Knut stuff.

Far faster. Far cheaper. Edge pro apex wouldnt be my first choice. Time consuming, and honestly, a bit overkill when you consider the End Users of the blades you will be sharpening. Non knife guys dont understand or even care about our perfect edges, so why spend extra effort that will be wasted ? Get the knife to cut. When the user dulls it, spend 5 minutes on it instead of an hour, make your money, and wait till the next dull one comes in.

Speaking from experience, nobody cares about the effort and care you put into something that they only see as a beating tool, even if you see it as sacred.

Know thy audience, and stay as efficient as possible !

Good luck.

 

[killgar]

There's such a thing in business called "the up-sell", and it's a major source of revenue. In fact, it's often the difference between just breaking even, and being profitable.

In the case of going into the knife maintenance business, offering more than just sharpening can increase one's profits. From what I hear, the desert, with all that sand and dust, can be hell on anything with moving parts. Charging one fee for sharpening, and offering an option of a thorough cleaning and lubrication for another fee, could increase ones profits.

Speaking from personal experience operating a successful business, you don't just offer your customers the bare minimum, you also offer "upgrades", or upgraded services, and you charge them accordingly. Every successful businessman knows- you don't just sell people the bare minimum of what they need. Instead, if you can, you sell them something "extra", something "special", something they didn't know they wanted.

The custom knife business is a perfect example. Imagine if custom knife makers only offered their customers the bare minimum- a plain basic knife with a plain basic sheath. It could be said that's all anyone really needs in a knife. But the knife makers wouldn't make nearly as much money, or have nearly as many customers as they would if they offered a variety of "upgrades", like polished blades, exotic handle materials, hand-tooled leather sheaths, etc, etc. It only makes good business sense to offer "upgrades", especially when there are people willing to pay more for them, even when they don't really need them.

And I wouldn't assume that a guy who has someone else sharpen his knife doesn't care about having a perfect edge or that he isn't a "knife guy". I've seen several people on this forum who pay others to sharpen their knives, and I'll bet they care. In fact, I've seen some of them complain, and rightly so, when the knife comes back all scratched up, or with too much steel removed, or with a less than perfect edge. And they vow to never again send their business to the guy who did the job.

If you assume that your customers will accept the bare minimum of effort and quality, and if that is all you give them, don't be surprised if some of them don't come back. And don't be surprised if they warn others to stay away. Another key to success in business is making customers happy. The better your work is, the happier your customers are likely going to be. It never hurts to impress a customer with the quality of your work and do a better job than they expected. Because a happy customer, especially one who is impressed with your work, is more likely to come back, and they are also the very best form of advertising.

 

[kolchak27]

I would also look into designing and making your own custom lanyards for knives with lanyard holes. You can likely get OD or black 550 cord for free with a friendly supply sgt/clerk. The key is in adding beads or other items to enhance the simple lanyard into a work of art. Find you a local young woodworker to carve intricate beads for your lanyards and to supply you with thin rawhide/learher strips that you can weave into nice designs using beads of any local hardwood, porcelain. carved bone designs like skulls, grenades, barrels, etc. to add some style to the simple leather thong lanyard. Then get locals to manufacture your designs. I'd even be interested in whatever you come up with so long as quality, innovative and cheap (like $10-15). You could then offer paracord bracelets using difference unit colors. And if you find local artisans capable of unique designs, you could import them after you leave the area. I want to offer several lanyard designs using leather/rawhide with many bead designs. Offer the customized lanyards made in your sparetime in addition to your basic sharpening services. Check out lanyard designs offered on the Internet to get ideas to start. And if you have a wife or kids who are good at leather handiwork, then you can concentrate on your knife services and put your family to work making lanyards and paracord bracelets to sell as accessories. I have found the standard lanyard holes on many knives are too narrow for 550 cord, hence leather strips would make attractive, long lasting lanyards with an infinite choice of beads to spice them up and customize them for each customer. Anyone can make a simple leather strip lanyard, but check out the many intricate designs on the market/Internet. You can build a business on custom lanyards alone - and bring it stateside when you move. Put your kiddos or local kids to work for you for next to nothing. I'd likely be a customer for my knife retailing biz. Paracord comes in many colors and weaves these days, and can serve as torniquets, etc. in a pinch. Incorporate a whistle, tiny scissors, fishhooks, etc. and have a multi-tool EDC item. Also make lanyards for all sorts of equipment like flashlights, etc. Carved bone, wood, or exotic stone skulls seem to be a big lanyard item these days. I'd also make up a line of leather or nylon sheaths with carved initials, unit crests, sharpening stones, tiny scissors, fishing survival items, etc.

 

[Creynaed]

I would also recommend getting some type of powered sharpener and become proficient at using it. Expect to be sharpening out many chips and dented edges. Most soldiers will be very hard on their knives to the point that many people on this forum would call it abuse. (I once took some rather large chips out of a blade by using a pocket knife to cut thick steel banding holding large ammo cans on a pallet)

 

[d00mtr33]

For lubrication id recommend either speed x or froglube. Speed x works great if you want to lube up a pivot and detent ball without taking the knife apart while froglube works great when a knife is apart p, ys its a great rust preventing lube and its food safe. You can get a 1oz bottle of speed x and a 1.5 oz froglube from ebay for about $20 fir both. Im not a fan of tuff glide, in my experience its not the best lubricant and its not food safe so not a great rjst prevention coating either. Just my 2 pennies. Good luck with your business.