Looking to start making some kitchen knives, advice?

[diablo_man]

So i made two little paring knives and showed a chef friend of mine them, and he liked them a lot. He then asked me to make him one or two, really of my own design. But while my paring knives turned out well(they were made from sawsall blades, maple/purpleheart handles and tung oil) they didnt hold up for very long. The blade tarnished really badly and the finish on the handles got really ugly quickly(i gave these two to my aunt for her to test out.)

So while all my previous knife projects have been found metal, and done with hand tools, I was hoping to choose my materials better this time. My chef friend is not a fan of standard stainless, and i have never worked in stainless before, but i was wondering if i could get some recommendations on good steels to use for this sort of kitchen application? Having it rust and get nasty looking is not good. I suppose i also need to find a good supplier for steel.

my "forge" and quenching equipment is also pretty primitive, so nothing too fancy/hard to harden please

And the tung oil was not effective in a wet, busy environment, it wore off and the handle material underneath got really nasty looking. What is a better, good looking and more permanent/impervious finish to be doing?

These are what the two knives i made looked like when they were first made. the maple handle one was done in a few hours just to see if i could do so. the lack of pins/rivets meant the handle scales eventually fell off, epoxy wasnt enough.

I would hate to spend the time and sell my friend a blade and have it end up looking like a 1960's volkswagen van's muffler after a week of use.

as for my equipment, so far ive done almost all my work with , angle grinder for outer shape,files and sandpaper for blade shape and finish on my larger knives, though those two paring knives were mostly shaped with an old hand held 4X24 power sander upside down in a vice. all my heat treating has been done with a propane torch(would like to find plans to make an easy small forge) and either car oil or canola oil. tempering done in kitchen oven. Hardly a well set up "shop", but im a student now.

thank you for all your help guys!


And im not sure what the differences would be, but i am also very interested in doing some larger kitchen knives, 6-12inch blade sort of stuff. but i am unfamiliar with what makes these knives "good" or good techniques.


this albums has the knives ive made so far that arent kitchen related, for context. http://imgur.com/a/HBoiZ#0

 

[jawilder]

kitchen knives are the hardest fixed blades to make and I doubt you'll be able to make a good one with your tools but here are some suggestions:

use 3/32 steel. HT is critical to get right. why would anyone want to pay more for a custom knife if it won't hold an edge as good as Chicago cutlery. I like to use O1 but will use 154CM if the customer wants stainless.

the reason I say you will have a hard time making a good knife with your tools is that thin steel should be great treated before grinding the bevels. typically most kitchen knife guys will profile, then HT then grind. this takes very sharp and high quality belts so the steel doesn't overheat. work slow. most custom kitchen knives have a hardness of 60/61 so files won't be of much use.

use a mechanical fastener like Corby bolts to attach the scales and a good epoxy to seal the joint

use synthetic handle material or stabilized wood and you won't need to worry about oils or a finish. they polish up very nice.

overall you could expect to spend about $100 on belts, wood, steel, bolts, and HT for a large blade

I don't mean to discourage you from making one, just letting you know what it takes

 

[diablo_man]

thats good to know, I do definitely need a proper grinder at some point. So far my heat treating has worked out really well.

I'll probably save the larger knives for when i can get a proper grinder, see what i can turn out in paring size with what i have now.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

jawildeer has given you good advice.

Making professional cutlery isn't the same as making a knife to use on a camping trip. Materials, form and function, and overall finish are far more precise.

Steels - STAINLESS - the vast majority of kitchen implements will be used wet, and on acidic things. Anti-corrosion and stain resistance are a big factor. CPM-154 makes a good knife, and CPM-S35VN makes a better one.
For those who want a carbon steel blade, 1095, W2, 52100 all make a good blade. 3V makes a long wearing blade.

Handle - It is hard to beat canvas Micarta for something that will receive kitchen use. Other choices are dark woods .The wood needs natural oil to resist the moist environment. Rosewood is the classic material for wood handles. Its cousins will all work. Stabilized woods and burls are OK for home use and special knives, but sticking to Micarta and G-10 will make a far sturdier and long lasting handle. Whatever you use, attach it with ate least two Corby style or similar fasteners and a good grade epoxy.

Shapes - While everyone wants to be the guy who invents the next and best wheel....the round ones still work pretty good. The same goes for kitchen knives. The standard shapes have been well worked out and field tested. Start simple with chef's blades, fillet blades, boners, and slicers. With time you can get into Japanese shapes and specialty knives.

Thickness - Well, that word is almost oxymoronic in a kitchen blade. Thinness is more the proper term. At .125", a kitchen blade is considered thick. Many are less tan .060". Tapering the blade ( distal) as well as full flat grinds are the way to make the blade cut well. The edge angle is generally lower than a hunter or chopper.

Finish - Forget mirror polish for nearly all kitchen blades. A satin finish is all you need or want. Many are just a 120 grit even surface. Scotch brite belts and pads do well on finishing kitchen blades.

Production - If you don't have the equipment, kitchen knives ( at least ones for commercial sale) may not be for you. The HT has to be spot on, and the grind pretty much perfect. In many cases the main grinding is done in the hardened state. This requires both experience and grinders that can be run wet.
HT is best sent out. Most of the makers who sell kitchen knives for a living have the HT done by people who do HT for a living....makes good sense.

A word about chefs - They are usually friendly folks, and they bring nice gifts.....but they often are very particular about their cutlery. If you make a good product, they will pass the word about you and your knives. If you make a mediocre or poor product...they will pass the word about you and your knives. So don't try to get into that field until you have those styles down pat. make them for your own kitchen, give them as gifts to friends, and when you are ready, make some and have a chef use them and give you his honest critique ( it helps to have thick skin). Lastly, listen to him. He doesn't know squat about making knives....but he knows exactly how he wants them to feel and work. If he says the handle is too fat ( common problem) , make it smaller. If the blade is too shallow, make it wider, etc.

Last comment:
We all have a garage drawer or shelf filled with all sorts of tools and gizmos that we bought because they were neat, and would make some task so much easier. We either never used them, or only once....Why?....because they didn't perform well or were uncomfortable to use. What we do use daily is a plain screwdriver, a simple pair of pliers, a claw hammer.That is the way it works with kitchen knives. Simple and basic are the work horses, fancy and specialized are the Drawer Queens. If you made only two styles, makle a 7" chef's blade and a 3" paring/utility blade.