Loose tool/small amount of play

[jon83]

I have a new Evogrip s18, I'm super happy with it but I just noticed the screwdriver on the rear bit of the knife is a bit loose. There about 1-2mm of sideways movement, it feels sort of like how a loose tooth feels when you move it about with your fingers. This is in the closed position but when I open it up, the amount of play lessens but it's still present.

I've compared it to my other saks with corkscrews in place, a 16 year old work champ, and a new evowood 14 and there is no play at all. I have a 20+ year old spartan, there is a small amount of play on the corkscrew which has been misaligned after years of use.
Even with the corkscrew on my spartan, it's only a bit of play and it goes back into it's original position after I let go. The philips on my S18 on the other hand, stays in place in the position where I push it.

I've checked all the other tools on the same knife and they are all secure. The blade and the saw are a bit bendy but there is no sideways moment with them at the base. I think it's down to the philips itself not fitting the gap properly.

It's a minor thing but my main concern other than the looseness, this is a tool that will require some pressure under use and over time the looseness and sideways movement might contribute to pushing or prying the layers apart.

I don't have much experience with these saks, maybe the screwdriver is meant to be a bit loose. Can someone let me know what the tolerances are for a loose tool and if this is to be expected or not.

 

[comis]

I have a new Evogrip s18, I'm super happy with it but I just noticed the screwdriver on the rear bit of the knife is a bit loose. There about 1-2mm of sideways movement, it feels sort of like how a loose tooth feels when you move it about with your fingers. This is in the closed position but when I open it up, the amount of play lessens but it's still present.

I've compared it to my other saks with corkscrews in place, a 16 year old work champ, and a new evowood 14 and there is no play at all. I have a 20+ year old spartan, there is a small amount of play on the corkscrew which has been misaligned after years of use.
Even with the corkscrew on my spartan, it's only a bit of play and it goes back into it's original position after I let go. The philips on my S18 on the other hand, stays in place in the position where I push it.

I've checked all the other tools on the same knife and they are all secure. The blade and the saw are a bit bendy but there is no sideways moment with them at the base. I think it's down to the philips itself not fitting the gap properly.

It's a minor thing but my main concern other than the looseness, this is a tool that will require some pressure under use and over time the looseness and sideways movement might contribute to pushing or prying the layers apart.

I don't have much experience with these saks, maybe the screwdriver is meant to be a bit loose. Can someone let me know what the tolerances are for a loose tool and if this is to be expected or not.

I have two copies of Evo S18 from the Wenger era, and both didn't have the problem you have mentioned. If you just recently get this and find this bothering you, maybe contact the dealer for an exchange or refund?

I have collected more than few dozens of Wenger/Delemont tools in various length, and generally find their qualities(by and large) quite acceptable and decent. But IIRC, I do remember seeing couple of threads recently from you regarding various issues with the Delemont SAKs, and seems to me you do like the original Victorinox offerings better. Now maybe it was just luck, but I probably would skip Delemont series if I were you, and just stick with the original Victorinox for the peace of mind?

 

[Piso Mojado]

I have a new Evogrip s18, I'm super happy with it but I just noticed the screwdriver on the rear bit of the knife is a bit loose. There about 1-2mm of sideways movement, it feels sort of like how a loose tooth feels when you move it about with your fingers. This is in the closed position but when I open it up, the amount of play lessens but it's still present.

I assume you're talking about the cap-lifter/screwdriver/wire stripper.

85mm Delémont knives use the Wenger tool. It looks just like the 91mm and 84mm Victorinox tools, but it is different and it has a different feel. It is a pressure-locking screwdriver. This is the description of Wenger's 85mm tool in SAKwiki.com:

The modern Wenger knives feature a locking screwdriver on their cap-lifter using what is sometimes known as the Padlock system.

This design uses a unique spring mechanism on the tool: when pressure is applied along the length of the knife, the tool is pushed slightly into the knife body so that a catch on the tang of the tool latches into a notch in the spring, which means that the tool cannot fold in, until the pressure is released. This works as very practical safety-lock when having to use more force on the screwdriver, to loosen or tighten a screw.

Unlike the Victorinox cap-lifters there is no stop/catch at 90° for using the tool in this position.

Elsewhere, SAKwiki.com notes that older Victorinox knives did not have the 90° stop/catch.

As I recall, there was a little play in Wenger's tool until I pressed down on it, when it became as stable as the liner locked screwdriver on Victorinox's 110mm GAK and the knives derived from it. I need to dig my Wengers out of storage. When I find them, I will post photos and my current reaction.

 

[Piso Mojado]

Wenger's S557 was the top of their 85mm line. It had all of their mainline 85mm tools.

https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=EVO+S557

I bought the EvoWood version as a closeout in 2014, when the Wenger division of Victorinox left the knife business. Victorinox kept all versions of this knife in production in their Delémont line, and finding them on sale, I bought a Victorinox Evolution Wood 557 and gave the Wenger to my cousin. I should have kept the Wenger! The scales were bulkier but the Swiss walnut on that knife was really beautiful. So I'll give you my evaluation of the Victorinox Delémont knife, but the photographs will be my Wenger knife for historical interest. Except for scale shape and Wenger's claw can opener, the knives were identical.

The tools in this knife are very tightly packed, so I opened the can opener before testing the cap-lifter/screwdriver/wire stripper. There was a very small amount of play with the tool closed and less when it was opened. Pressing down on it opened, Wenger's padlock system worked as advertised and the tool became completely rigid. Testing my daily carry, an 84mm Victorinox Tourist for comparison, there was no play with the tool closed or open, but closed there was a small amount of tool flex.

Here is Wenger's EvoWood S557 and a size comparison with Victorinox's Ranger.

 

[Piso Mojado]

Here are the tools on Wenger's EvoWood S557. The tools on Victorinox's Delémont 557 are identical except for the can opener. Testing Wenger's can opener against Victorinox's and timing myself, I found Wenger's claw to be consistently faster. That's because you pull Wenger's tool and push Victorinox's. Think about mopping a floor pushing vs. walking backwards pulling. The difference is small and Victorinox's tool is also a small screwdriver and a staple puller. But if I had to open two or three dozen cans with a pocket knife, I would look for a Wenger.






Wenger's plier is slip-joint and of course that's useful. Victorinox's plier is more robust, and if you're using it as a pincher to pull something that's stuck, the Victorinox tool is superior.

 

[jon83]

Thanks all for your informative replies. Just to make it clear I am talking about the philips screwdriver on the back of the S18. I have included pictures to show the amount of play visible.

I'm happy enough with this tool that I probably won't exchange it as it is. I will drop by the shop again since I've ordered another knife to be delivered this week and make another comparison with other S18's. Being a city boy with no real diy skills, I doubt I will have any use for the philips tool enough to exert the type of force required to do any real damage to the tool.

ioned. If you just recently get this and find this bothering you, maybe contact the dealer for an exchange or refund?

I have collected more than few dozens of Wenger/Delemont tools in various length, and generally find their qualities(by and large) quite acceptable and decent. But IIRC, I do remember seeing couple of threads recently from you regarding various issues with the Delemont SAKs, and seems to me you do like the original Victorinox offerings better. Now maybe it was just luck, but I probably would skip Delemont series if I were you, and just stick w

I do like the Evolution line much more than I thought I would. The S18 in particular feels great in my hand and I love just setting it on my table and looking at it. In the past I have read of instances where people mention some of the Wengers to be not as good in quality as the Victorinox counterparts. I've never experienced them for myself and I don't quite know if the issues I've started threads about could really be considered real quality control issues. Some are cosmetic and others are minor enough that they don't get in the way of the usability of the tool. It's just the variance with the individual samples that I've tested recently which has slightly annoyed me. Buying certain products new, I do have expectations on the look and feel of things. If I had bought this used, I probably wouldn't have given it much thought.


Here are some pics of the screwdriver on my s18. As you can see the screwdriver settles in two different positions, something not exhibited on the corresponding tools on the three other knives I own.

 

[comis]

I see the backspring phillips seems to be loose, I think that's a valid concern and if that bothers you, I do suggest to get a refund/exchange within the grace period. As previously posted, I did check my two S18 from Wenger era, and both didn't exhibit the same issues. But who knows, these knives are all hand assembled, so it is not entirely impossible to have some QC issues here and there, but whether that's within the tolerance level of SAK, that's probably another story altogether.

As for backspring phillips, just as a very friendly reminder, they are known not to be as strong as the inline phillips(such as the one on Victorinox Explorer), and I would suggest to use it for very light fixing only; if you torque it with force, it is possible to warp the backlayers/liners without knowing.

 

[jon83]

I dropped by the Victorinox store earlier, the Cadet Alox I ordered has still not arrived but I did get a chance to play around with the only other S18 left. There was a bit of sideways play with the philips screwdriver in the closed position, not as much as on mine and about the same in the open position. Their display Evo wood 14, has a bit of play on the corkscrew as well, mine at home does not. Same with their S17 corkscrew on display. The other models I quickly checked before leaving did not seem to exhibit the same thing with their corresponding tools. One other thing I noticed with the locking evolution blade models was that some of them, in the closed position, the tab for unlocking the blade exhibit various amounts of play before there is any tension. It's very minor and does not affect the operation of the tool, most people won't notice but it's the sort of thing that annoys the hell out of me.

I hesitated a bit to exchange the S18 but I have already checked all the other tools on this sak thoroughly, and I'm happy with how they work. The last thing I want is to replace it with another one and discover later something else about it I don't like. I'm happy with this S18, I don't have much real use for the philips head in my day to day anyway, so far I've just played around with it loosening and tightening door hinges and cabinets around the house. It's not as if the philips screwdriver moves around freely on it's own, only when I play around with it. Hopefully it will hold, if not I'll be sure to come back here and complain about it.