low-temp damascus

C

cwhittington

Joined
Sep 6, 2002
Messages
106
Howdy- I asked about "can" damascus not long ago and got some excellent responses from many of you guys, especially from Fitzo and an excellent response from Bruce Bump with great pics showing the process of making mosaic damascus- thanks! My understanding was vastly improved by your responses.
Anyway, I just ran across a reference to "low-temp" welding of laminations on Ron Reill's "best of TheForge" site http://www.reil1.net/theforge2.html (alot of other real good stuff there too) which describes how Darryl Meir does low-temp welding by using very clean and flat stock, wetting with kerosene and arc welding the sides and ends shut leaving a couple small openings for the gasses to escape. I was looking for a poor-man's way to do canister damascus in a coal/charcoal forge without presses or power hammers and avoid the problems I've been having with bad welds and burning more steel than I weld up. Anyway, I tried it and it worked! Only the ends of my billet actually reached welding heat but the billet appears to be sound (I was up very late last night doing this and haven't had a chance to grind all the arc- weld off the edges). An exciting aspect of this for me is that apparently, only a bright orange-yellow heat is required to weld, which would give much more time to complete the weld per heat, and the use of some more poor-man/mickey mouse ideas like car-jack or screw presses to make the weld.
I'm pretty green at this stuff and no doubt this is not news to a lot of you, but I thought it would be real helpful to some of the other beginning bladesmiths who have had difficulty with damascus and don't have the means for a more equipped shop.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
 
I did it with a 3 1/2 lb hammer. I cleaned it up last night and did some more forging and haven't seen any flaws so far. And no flux either.
 
Anyone can post pictures. You just cant upload them. If you have picture hosting on the web anywhere it should work just fine. Anxious to see your results.
 
Good idea- I will have to look into that. I'll see if my ISP provides space for that. I used a med. carbon banding that I have a lot of so it wont show much contrast but it does show the layers after etching. By the time I get the pic hosting situation figured out I should have something more interesting
to post. Another benefit that I think exists is that carbon could be added to the steel since there is no flux to get in the way or carry the carbon out, but then the carbon might interfere with the welding. I was thinking about adding sheets of paper between the layers. I'll have to try it and let you know if it works.
 
I think some folks have gotten away from the sacrificial oxygen burning material. I would think you get some benefit from the kerosene burning off.
 
You're right- The kerosene combines with any oxygen present and also displaces any air as it vaporizes and vents out the openings. I was thinking of the paper as a carbon source- which, if it works would mean I could make a lot of high carbon knives out of the banding instead of a lot of med. carbon blades or not dilute the overall carbon in combination with better steel, assuming that the added carbon is enough, if it works at all. I should have asked if the layer of carbon/residue left would prevent the weld from taking or would the carbon be thin enough to be absorbed by the steel in one heat? I could sprinkle charcoal or graphite between the layers but the paper/carbon would be more uniform. I guess there's only one way to find out!
 
Don't expect to get any significant amount of carbon into the steel from kerosene or paper. They are acting as getters, that is they tie up the oxygen.
 
The billet is essentially free of oxygen since it is sealed by the welds (except for the small vent openings) and the voids are filled by the kerosene and oxygen is prevented from entering the billet by the venting kerosene, so the carbon won't be lost to oxidation.
Would the carbon uptake still be too insignificant to matter? Even after several heats? I know I sound desperate for this to work, but I just want to know if would, and if not, I want to understand why.
I seem to recall that carbon absorbtion occured at a rate of 1/32" or 1/16" an hour or something like that, and I haven't timed my heats or anything, but since the banding is only about 1/32" thick, it seems that by the time I am done welding and forging there would be some improvement- sort of like case hardening from the inside out- or not?
Thanks for the input.
 
You're looking for miracles.If you start out with a .40 C steel and a 1.00 C steel you won't get anything more than an equivalent of a .70 C steel in the damascus. If you want anything more than that ,start out with higher carbon steel. Don't attempt to add carbon any other way.
 
Why not? Carbon is added through essentially the same means in case hardening, so why wouldn't it work? I am not factoring in convenience, convention, or anything else- I just want to know if it would work, and if not, why. The two possible obstacles I see are:

1) the donated carbon would not be enough to bump it up 2 or more points

2) the carbon residue would act as a barrier and prevent the weld from occuring, at least until it was absorbed by the steel
 
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