LSSPGK steel?

[knife chop]

I read online that Jeff Freeman is making a knife using LSSPGK steel. has anyone used this steel and what does this steel compare to?

 

[Gator97]

Here - Latrobe LSS PGK steel composition and cross reference information.
As you can see it's similar to Crucible cru-wear and few others from different makers. Dunno about the rest, but Cru-Wear is considered to be a good one.

 

[knife chop]

Here - Latrobe LSS PGK steel composition and cross reference information.
As you can see it's similar to Crucible cru-wear and few others from different makers. Dunno about the rest, but Cru-Wear is considered to be a good one.

Awesome..i do wonder why manufacturers aren't using this steel as much

 

[Gator97]

Price/Availability and also how easy it is to machine and heat treat.
Later two require better and more complicated equipment, higher maintenance costs, increased wear and tear, etc. Not everyone wants to deal with that. One of the reasons 10xx series are so popular, easy to find, cheap, easy to machine, easy to HT to decent levels.

 

[The Mastiff]

This class of steels has been tried out lately by both Spyderco ( Cruwear & CPM Cruwear) and Strider ( Z wear, PD#1) and has made a couple converts here and there amongst us knife folks. LSS PGK is less well known right now just as 14/4 is less well known than 154cm, ATS 34, CPM 154, etc. The same steel but a different name from a different foundry.

I like it as a larger knife type steel as it has an excellent balance of toughness, and wear resistance in addition to having pretty good edge stability for it's class of wear resistant steels ( between D2 and CPM M4 somewhere depending on the heat treat and final hardness) . It Isn't stainless but it is usually going to be more resistant to corrosion than 1095/O-1 once again depending on heat treat, finish type and grit, and coating if any.

I like this class of steels and have since I first tried someone else s Gerber Sportsman 2 "V" steel ( Vascowear) back in the early middle 80's and feel the steel has benefited from the powder steel treatment which usually makes steels more consistent composition wise, cleaner and better grain structure.

That being said I haven't yet tried the PGK version of it but feel pretty confident about it as provided by the manufacturer.

 

[knife chop]

This class of steels has been tried out lately by both Spyderco ( Cruwear & CPM Cruwear) and Strider ( Z wear, PD#1) and has made a couple converts here and there amongst us knife folks. LSS PGK is less well known right now just as 14/4 is less well known than 154cm, ATS 34, CPM 154, etc. The same steel but a different name from a different foundry.

I like it as a larger knife type steel as it has an excellent balance of toughness, and wear resistance in addition to having pretty good edge stability for it's class of wear resistant steels ( between D2 and CPM M4 somewhere depending on the heat treat and final hardness) . It Isn't stainless but it is usually going to be more resistant to corrosion than 1095/O-1 once again depending on heat treat, finish type and grit, and coating if any.

I like this class of steels and have since I first tried someone else s Gerber Sportsman 2 "V" steel ( Vascowear) back in the early middle 80's and feel the steel has benefited from the powder steel treatment which usually makes steels more consistent composition wise, cleaner and better grain structure.

That being said I haven't yet tried the PGK version of it but feel pretty confident about it as provided by the manufacturer.

Great information. Freeman outdoor gear is making a 6.6" inch knife with that steel. how would you compare the toughness and wear resistance with the cpm 3v or 52100?

 

[The Mastiff]

It should be less tough than 3V until you try pushing the hardness of 3V up past rc 61 or so. Wear resistance should be higher and get even higher as the hardness goes up. This steel can hit working hardness of rc 63 and can handle high heat almost as well as a high speed steel. This is assuming the heat treat is designed to enhance wear resistance.

52100 will be not as tough or as wear resistant as 3V or Cruwear. It should have very high edge stability though, better than either provided if heat treated the way it's supposed to be, which can stretch into days. 52100 is also one of my favorite steels and is usually one I reach for if high sharpness levels, good edge stability and good toughness is required. 52100 almost seems like more than the sum of it's parts when done properly.

Yes, I hold all of these steels in high regard. All are in my top 5 to top 10 favorites in fact.

If you need to cut abrasive materials like rope the carbides ( type of carbides and overall carbide fraction) do tend to take over and pull ahead performance wise. The Cruwear class obviously has more and better with the Moly, Tungsten and Vanadium present.

Joe

 

[Gator97]

T... just as 14/4 is less well known than 154cm, ATS 34, CPM 154, etc.

Mastiff, what is 14/4? Is that an alias for 14-4CrMo steel?

 

[knife chop]

It should be less tough than 3V until you try pushing the hardness of 3V up past rc 61 or so. Wear resistance should be higher and get even higher as the hardness goes up. This steel can hit working hardness of rc 63 and can handle high heat almost as well as a high speed steel. This is assuming the heat treat is designed to enhance wear resistance.

52100 will be not as tough or as wear resistant as 3V or Cruwear. It should have very high edge stability though, better than either provided if heat treated the way it's supposed to be, which can stretch into days. 52100 is also one of my favorite steels and is usually one I reach for if high sharpness levels, good edge stability and good toughness is required. 52100 almost seems like more than the sum of it's parts when done properly.

Yes, I hold all of these steels in high regard. All are in my top 5 to top 10 favorites in fact.

If you need to cut abrasive materials like rope the carbides ( type of carbides and overall carbide fraction) do tend to take over and pull ahead performance wise. The Cruwear class obviously has more and better with the Moly, Tungsten and Vanadium present.

Joe

Thanks for the information. So I looked at the composition of cpm 3v and LSS PGK, the 3v had 7% Cr and 3% vanadium. And LSS PGK has 8% Cr and 2% vanadium. So does this mean essentially they'll have the same corrosion resistance?

 

[The Mastiff]

Thanks for the information. So I looked at the composition of cpm 3v and LSS PGK, the 3v had 7% Cr and 3% vanadium. And LSS PGK has 8% Cr and 2% vanadium. So does this mean essentially they'll have the same corrosion resistance?

To be honest IMO, the heat treatment, final hardness and finish type and grit will have more affect on corrosion resistance than the fairly minor compositional differences. You can get different values for any of the attributes we usually value ( corrosion resistance, Abrasive wear resistance , and toughness) by changing up the heat treat temperature, times, and tempering times and temps. The same steel can have very different values depending on these differences.

The corrosion resistance can be fairly close I'd bet, with way too many variables to pin it down without actually having test samples in hand to test, and those results would not necessarily hold true for the same knife from another batch. Consistency from batch to batch ( steel from the foundry, heat treat & temper and finish from the maker) is a sign of quality, and money spent and testing being done. That's what makes Spyderco's and Benchmades, and Kai/ZT's so good IMO. Anybody can make one good XXXXX. Making 600 in a row is a different story and very much more difficult. We are pretty spoiled now though and expect near perfection.