"Luxury" watches?

Charlie Mike

Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob)
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
28,365
I was reading one of the glossy watch publications at Borders. An interview with some so and so from Omega made a comparison of cars to watches. Rolls Royce, Lambo, Farrari et al = Patek Philippe, Jaeger Le Coultre, Blancpain, Breguet... He then compares "well made" cars such as BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, Audi = Rolex, Omega, Tag Heuer. I must admit, pulling the trigger on my Sea Dweller was hard to justify and only came down to the fact that I was paying with money I had (no credit/debt) and that this will likely be the last watch I'll ever buy. What I'm wondering is if you think this man's comparison was right (would Ford, Chevy, Honda = Timex, Casio, Sieko?)? Who in their right mind would spend a half million on a tourbillon of some sort? I can see dropping $1400 on a custom Emerson, but maybe wealth and prices of toys are relative.
 
I think on the whole you have the comparisons right. There's nothing wrong with a Mercedes or comparable (not talking about their SLR's, those are every bit as awesome as a Ferrari, maybe more so) and in fact they are lovely cars, luxurious and usually reliable. There's also nothing wrong with a Toyota Celica or if you have the cash, a Maserati. What for some is plenty is for some not nearly good enough, and I'm not the one to judge really.

On the whole, luxury watches are usually fairly overpriced when it comes right down to it, but ultimately it's a matter of supply and demand, as well as buying experience. I doubt that there's any real reason why Busse or Chris Reeve couldn't cut their prices in half and still make money, but that's not really the point; they are happy where they are, and their customers still line up at the door at those prices. When speaking of really fine watches though, it's interesting to note that the really fine ones like Breguet, Patek, Lange, etc. don't have a clear analogy in the car world. Frankly, if one were to build a car that required as many man hours and as much precision as one of those watches, one would be looking at at a minimum a Bugatti, probably even a customized souped up Bugatti, rebuilt piece by piece. More likely you're looking at something like a Formula 1 car as a comparison, especially for highly complicated watches or tourbillons.

Also it goes without saying that pretty much no car on Earth is going to last, for all intents and purposes, several generations of regular use, regardless of how well or often you maintain it. More than just marketing spiel, it's really true that a Patek, a Breguet, or for that matter even a Rolex or Omega can become an heirloom passed on to descendants of yours that you'll never meet.

As for how much things cost, well I guess there's two ways to look at it. On the one hand, you have dollars for performance, in which case anything above an Omega chronograph (which is already surpassed, in reality, let's face it, by a Seiko, which is already surpassed by a Casio) is asinine and a waste of money. There's nothing wrong with that school of thought, and ultimately that's why a lot of people love Spyderco, Buck or Kershaw.

On the other hand, you can ignore dollars for performance, or at least put them as a secondary priority, and go for something else that is very hard to describe, but some people feel tangibly in their hands. For some people, nothing but at a bare minimum, a Sebenza will do, even though they could accomplish whatever it is they want to accomplish with a Bradley Alias, or even a sharpened piece of sheet metal. The same goes with watches; sometimes it's the feel of the watch, sometimes it's the knowledge that it's made of fine materials and decorated in a certain way, and sometimes it's the knowledge that hundreds of highly skilled man hours came together to make something that is, at a particular pricepoint, the pinnacle of a craft. And for some people that's all turgid nonsense, and they're fine with the corner drugstore Pakistan special. I think that's going a little too far, but again, I'm probably not the best judge.

But there's a really interestingly fine line between connoisseurship and conspicuous consumption. Three guys might be standing at a street corner shooting the breeze. Three cars drive by: a Nissan Z, which for one guy is the bee's knees, a Lambo Murcielago, which is the shizzle for the second guy, and then a Ferrari P4/5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_P4/5) drives by and the third guy creams himself. Who's right?
 
Thanks for clarifying things for me a little better. Another question... My Tag Heuer Aquaracer auto crapped out on me just days before the 2 year warranty was up. I took it back to Macy's and it was shipped out. When I bought it, they told me how these are much better made than Rolex and how when you buy a Rolex, you're almost entirely paying for the name (on a non blingy stainless). I eard the same thing from the Breitling guy, the Omega guy as well. I'm guessing this just may be a case of every dealer having the best dope but how much hype does my Sea Dweller contain?

edit:
Strangely enough, the Sieko 200m auto diver I wore in Iraq (03-04) still runs like nobody's business.
 
Last edited:
If you want the straight dope on watches, you're going to have to find somebody who has no vested interest, and that's really hard to do. I personally have had good advice from my local watch shop/ repair shop called Alex Watchworks in Portland.

A simple rule of thumb, not just in watches, is that the more advertising you see, especially high dollar advertising (like celeb endorsements) the more value of your watch is sucked out through that marketing. It takes money to advertise, and obviously that money has to come from somewhere. So by that logic, Rolex may be one of the most overhyped products in the world, followed in the watch world by Omega and a few other brands. That doesn't mean they are bad watches or brands, just that you are paying more for the name than you do for some other watches.

The dirty secret about most auto watches is that the movement doesn't cost that much to make, especially but not limited to Swatch group watches. Again, that doesn't mean they are bad watches, or that the movements are bad. I'm sure some other people will chime in here that know more about which specific movements Omegas, Tags, etc. share but modify a little to their own products.

Tags are on the lower end of pure quality of the modern finer watches in general (By that I do not mean that they suck, far from it!). Omegas are popular with watch repairmen because parts are easy to get. Breitlings often involve major flaming hoops for the watch repairmen to jump through to get parts. My watch shop's favorite watches in terms of quality, durability and parts availability are Bell & Ross.
 
If you want the straight dope on watches, you're going to have to find somebody who has no vested interest, and that's really hard to do. I personally have had good advice from my local watch shop/ repair shop called Alex Watchworks in Portland.

A simple rule of thumb, not just in watches, is that the more advertising you see, especially high dollar advertising (like celeb endorsements) the more value of your watch is sucked out through that marketing. It takes money to advertise, and obviously that money has to come from somewhere. So by that logic, Rolex may be one of the most overhyped products in the world, followed in the watch world by Omega and a few other brands. That doesn't mean they are bad watches or brands, just that you are paying more for the name than you do for some other watches.

The dirty secret about most auto watches is that the movement doesn't cost that much to make, especially but not limited to Swatch group watches. Again, that doesn't mean they are bad watches, or that the movements are bad. I'm sure some other people will chime in here that know more about which specific movements Omegas, Tags, etc. share but modify a little to their own products.

Tags are on the lower end of pure quality of the modern finer watches in general (By that I do not mean that they suck, far from it!). Omegas are popular with watch repairmen because parts are easy to get. Breitlings often involve major flaming hoops for the watch repairmen to jump through to get parts. My watch shop's favorite watches in terms of quality, durability and parts availability are Bell & Ross.

I bought a used tissot seastar 1000 a few months ago. I love it, even more than my Tag. How does this figure into the heierarchy. I had barely heard of them except for internet forums (no advertising, I'm not paying for a name), they are now a Swatch company. I'm just asking because you seem to know your stuff when it comes to watches, and all I knew was that I got a crazy good deal on a swiss watch that I liked the way it looked. Just wondering how you would categorize Tissot, and the seastar 1000 in particular.
 
Well to be honest if it makes you happy and you like the watch, and you got a good deal, there's nothing to not like about the watch, and it's great. One man's Casio is another man's Rolex and anybody who tries to tell you there's something wrong with that is a snob. You got an auto movement for a screaming price, and there's no reason why that watch shouldn't last your whole life.

I think the best analogy for Tissot would be Benchmade Blue Class, Toyota Camry or Honda Accord, etc. For the upper tier of watches it's at the low end, and for the bottom tier of watches it's at the high end. It's an affordable nice watch that has great styling, it's dependable and it's well made. It's nothing exotic, but it's rock solid and looks good with a suit.
 
Well I'm glad to hear it, especially because all but one of the benchmades I own are Red class (full time student, part time job). And hopefully the fact that it "looks good with a suit" will actually apply to me one day.
 
When I bought it, they told me how these are much better made than Rolex and how when you buy a Rolex, you're almost entirely paying for the name (on a non blingy stainless). I eard the same thing from the Breitling guy, the Omega guy as well. I'm guessing this just may be a case of every dealer having the best dope but how much hype does my Sea Dweller contain?.

All luxury watches are hyped to some degree. Rolex is one of the few larger names that make their own movements so that counts for something. Omega and Breitling use modified ETA movements as do a lot of other well known brands.

I had barely heard of them except for internet forums (no advertising, I'm not paying for a name), they are now a Swatch company.

Tissot has been around for a long time, 1853 to be precise.

Here's one I own from the 1940s with a 14k case.

a954e938c401f1b5a20a22f931b92f8d5g.jpg
 
Wow, that's a nice classic Tissot you have. I only have one Tissot, which is the T-Touch, and I love that watch! I wear it for all my outdoor excursions.

All luxury watches are hyped to some degree. Rolex is one of the few larger names that make their own movements so that counts for something. Omega and Breitling use modified ETA movements as do a lot of other well known brands.

Swatch Group is the largest watch manufacturer. They own Swatch (of course) along other luxury watch brands such as Breguet, Blancpain, Omega, Tissot, Glashutte, Longines, Hamilton, and even private labels such as Calvin Klein and Tiffany & Co. Aside from watches, they also produce movements, specifically ETA, Valjoux, and F.Piguet.
 
What I'm wondering is if you think this man's comparison was right (would Ford, Chevy, Honda = Timex, Casio, Sieko?)?
No, the car comparison is wrong, and here's why....

With high-end cars one generally expects (and gets) greater performance....more horsepower, better handling, more responsive transmission, greater stopping power, etc...
You would not expect to find a 120hp four-cylinder in a Ferrari, for example.

But with many high-end watches, especially the mechanical ones, you actually get lower performance, as a timepiece (not jewelry), than you get with with many lower-end watches.
For example, a digital Timex Ironman will keep better time than a Rolex automatic.


I think that a better comparison would be something like this:
Casio, Timex, ect...are like plastic dishes you might buy at Walmart.
A Rolex, Omega, Tag, etc...are like fine china that one might buy from a dealer.
One holds food no better than the other, but the fine china is more pleasing to the eye.
 
Last edited:
Wow, never thought of it that way. I guess I like wearing my fine china.
 
No, the car comparison is wrong, and here's why....


I think that a better comparison would be something like this:
Casio, Timex, ect...are like plastic dishes you might buy at Walmart.
A Rolex, Omega, Tag, etc...are like fine china that one might buy from a dealer.
One holds food no better than the other, but the fine china is more pleasing to the eye.

That's a good way of putting it. A luxury watch is merely a jewelry piece. Many people believe that a mechnical watch tells time more accurately. But the truth is, the Shrek watch you get from a McDonald's happy meal is more likely to be more accurate than a mechnical one. A mechnical watch that is within +/- 2 seconds accurate per day is consider to be very good and is qualified to be stamped with "chronometer" on the face. A quartz watch is usually within 0.5 second /day accurate. Quartz inaccuracies are mainly due to weather and battery. However, I would much rather wear my Omega than a Shrek :D
 
What influenced my purchase the most was the craftsmanship and the look of the SD. I buy mechanical self winding watches because I appreciate the complexity and beauty of what they are. I'm drawn just the same to other like things: D/A OTF's, D/A side openers, guns, cars etc... I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
When I first started making some money I bought my dad a breitling titanium superavenger that was submersible to almost 10,000 ft. My dad owned a Cleaning company and even though he had many employees he would still do the same work as them. I told him he could wear his old seiko for work and wear the new watch the rest of the time. He laughed and said if that watch can go 10,000 feet in the ocean it can go 5 inches into a toilet bowl, and he was going to wear the watch as much as he can before he dies... can't argue with that.

I cost almost $500 bucks to get the watch serviced and repaired since I bought it (he could have gotten a couple of seikos for that), but he likes it, and thatis all that matters.

I have a few Rolexes, an Oris, a Tag, a couple of Omegas, a Patek, and I wind up wearing my 30 year old seiko dive watch the most.
 
I purchase them for the same reasons. Take a look at a Hamilton Khaki Navy GMT watch. It's not considered a high-end luxury watch (more like a middle-end luxury), but it's pretty reasonably priced. I bought one a few years ago and it's still one of my favorite. What I love about it is its Sapphire Crystal window on the back of the watch (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/obie33/74503670.jpg). You could see how the watch operates.
 
Being in Jewelry and being a fine watch fanatic I feel I have a good perspective on this. I don't think a car is a good analogy for watches, comparatively a fine mechanical movement as far as build quality and longevity would be much like driving your car over a million miles a year and servicing it when needed, I have a 1973 Rolex GMT master that I wear all the time that my dad gave me years ago, I think it has been serviced 6 or 7 times in its life and with care and barring catastrophy a fine watch like that will last nearly forever. Rolex has a bad rap, are they expensive? Yes, are they built exceptionally well yes. They are also the largest advertiser in the watch world, I thing approaching $100 mill a year. They are also directly responsable for many of the technological advancements that watches across all price ranges use today. They are also one of the least expensive entirely in house manufactured watch. I also feel when people stop lineing up to buy them then maybe its time for a price drop. There are several models that people wait years for to pay full retail for. Now stepping off Rolex, untill you start stepping into the $6000+ range and going to a true "Manufacture" movement, barring the home shopping channel crap, 98% of all real Swiss watches are the same mechanically using Swatch's ETA calibers both quartz and automatic. Companies like Bell&Ross are actually made by another company (Germany's SINN) and marked up 2-3x, Kobold actually started the same way. I think in the $200-$1200 range Seiko is making the best watches in the world right now, especially in their Elite collections, I would stack them up against anything Swiss at 2-3x the price. Germany is making some of the best low end (under $1500) mechanicals right now I think.
 
This is something else I have noticed concerning women....

Women seldom buy expensive watches.
If you see an expensive watch on a woman, I'm willing to bet that a man bought it for her.
Women don't seem to care if the watch they're wearing is cheap or not.

BUT,

They do appreciate an expensive watch on a man's wrist!
 
i love auto watches and always have, wore seiko for many yrs and had great luck with them, for the $$ they are pretty hard to beat, i would say they are like a ford truck, good, dependable, priced right, easy to work on when ya have to which is rare, a good daily user.

then ya have autos like marathon in the $500+ range, good watches, like a toyota camry maybe?

then stuff like omega/sinn/etc its imho more like a BMW or mercedes, a lot of its the name not that its 2X as good as the marathon or 5X as good as a seiko.

imho the really high end watches are more like porsche or ferrarri, watches which cost over $3K or so, watches like rolex, again mostly name while great watches dont keep any better time than a $300 seiko, but hold there value well, and are again great watches albeit expensive ones.

just depends on how much disposable income ya have, if you like the diving watch style for example the seiko divers offer excellent quality at a low price, and unless ya just love a particular watch for 1 reason or another ya are probably buying the "name".

my dad had a rolex GMT when i was younger and i always swore i was gonna have one some day, my dad got a deal on his and sold it when someoen offered him 2.5X what he paid for it and thought he had gotten over on the guy lol, sure made me mad though, but anyway thats how i ended up getting one, not that i though they were head over heels better than seiko, or marathon,
 
Back
Top