M 4 Steel Spyderco Vs Benchmade

C

clockman

Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
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Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spydeco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?


.
 
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AFAIK, the only Spyderco in M4 currently is Gayle Bradley. The M4 on the Bradley is about Rc 64. Benchmade runs their M4 a few points softer.

I have a Bradley and an M4 Rift. My subjective impression is that the Bradley holds an edge longer.

The limited run of M4 Ti/G-10 Militaries is due in July. I wouldn't assume it will run the same Rc as the Bradley, but I hope it does.
 
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clockman said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spyde 4rco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?

Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.

I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...
 
nativecajun57 said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spyde 4rco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?

Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.

I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...

Clearly... Are you sure about these statements? A link would nice to prove it. I'm no expert by any means, but the contents of my post is based on what I have learned here and at other knife forums around the Internet.
This should help clear things up:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart4.html
My apologies, I cannot really understand what you are trying to say, it makes little sense and may cause some confusion.

Knife companies do not make their steel. Steel is purchased from places that specialize in producing large amounts of steel for various industries (known as forges). Knifemakers are one small group, aside from aerospace, industrial manufacturing, and other industries.
http://www.crucible.com/
http://www.cartech.com/
Knifemakers perform a heat treating process to harden the steel to their specifications. The Rockwell scale of hardness is used to determine how hard/soft the steel is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale
 
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what...

ok on topic I find spyderco's m4 to be great, holds an edge great but doesnt chip out at 64 RC and isnt that hard to sharpen with the right tools. I dont see a reason to buy m4 at 60-62, especially if youre going to get a knife at 60.

I said it in another thread but Im very impressed by the ability of the Gayle Bradley to hold a lower degree angle and have such thinness at the edge while being so tough.
 
nativecajun57 said:
Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.

I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...

Did you just say that a Benchmade blade is made by Spyderco? That's funny! And I don't think that a letter before a number has anything to do with it being a tool steel.

Why did you not like Benchmades M4 steel? I find it amazing stuff. It gets super scary sharp easily, holds it for a long time, and doesn't chip the couple times I have hit metal on accident.
 
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nativecajun57 said:
Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.
I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...



not so much.
 
So now Benchmades are being made by Spyderco? Haha I don't think so. My Benchmade M4 and Spyderco M4 are quite different. They can both take a wicked sharp edge but the similarities end there.
 
nativecajun57 said:
clockman said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spyde 4rco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?

Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.

I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...



That was the best thing I have read all day.
Click to expand...
 
Good god please atleast know a TINY BIT about what your saying before posting here...

I can't give any real useful comparisons between BMs and Spydercos M4 but I have had a chance to use the Gayle Bradley pretty hard and I have to say that I love it! Despite my thoughts going in, it was not hard to sharpen at all. I will say though that I have not actually done much hard sharpening or reprofiling just honing however it strops up real nice in not much time at all. I'd say that it wasn't much harder to sharpen than 154 cm at all. As far as the cutting preformance of Spyderco's M4 goes, it cut and held an edge beautifully. I have done a ton on cardboard cutting and whittling and its edge retention seems very good. It has got a tiny bit of patina on it but not as much as I thought it would.

I recently recieved a M4 Ritter grip and a M4 Activator so after the weeks through I'll update with my opinion on Benchmades M4.
 
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clockman said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spydeco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?


.
Click to expand...

There is only one company that makes M4. They call it CPM-M4, and that company is Crucible. Spyderco and Benchmade use the same steel from the same manufacturer.

Differences might be hardness and grind.

The highest Rc figure I've seen quoted for production M4 is the GB folder.
 
Both the BM M4 and Spyderco M4 are supposed to be the same hardness (62-63 HRc)

However, it was posted here (I think by Sal) that some of Spyderco's first run of Gayle Bradleys came out at closer to 65 HRc. Not sure if this is true for all their runs.

There have been many favourable reports of both BM and Spyderco's M4. I'm looking to get a GB myself to replace my lost Stretch.
 
Both the BM M4 and Spyderco M4 are supposed to be the same hardness (62-63 HRc)
Click to expand...

Benchmades table of steels states CPM M4 is run at RC 60-62. That's what the old M2 blades were listed as. In reality the M2 knives were more like about RC 59 when tested from the tests I'm aware of. There was some question if the coating softened the steel like an extra temper. I don't know. They still performed wonderfully, and I regret every one I ever got rid of.

I currently have 4 CPM M4 Benchmades, and 2 Spyderco Bradleys, plus 2 M4 mules.

It's currently my favorite steel for folders. I love the edges it takes, the excellent wear resistance and edge retention. For me, it sharpens easily, and takes edges any darksider would be proud of. It has the strength to hold them, especially in the Spyderco bradley. Yes, I do feel it may be a couple points harder than the benchmade.

Not enough of a difference to keep me from enjoying and using the Benchmades. I love them all. Out of the box the benchmades need sharpening, and reprofiling unlike the laser like Spydercos. None of the benchmades could do anything more than scrape hair out of the box. The worst of all being the Ti framelock 760.
 
nativecajun57 said:
clockman said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light

and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read

and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.

Those of you that have owned or own both BM and Spyde 4rco knives in m 4

steel do you find any differences in m 4 made by BM and the m 4 made by

Spyderco. If there are differences what are they??

Which company makes the best m 4?

Depends on the knife you buy. The benchmade mini griptillian with the hole in the blade like spyderco. Well that is because it is made by spyderco.

I do not know a thing about M-4 but it seems every day you look on the net someone has come up with " new " some super steel. I have said it before and I say it again. 420 or 440 what ever the steel treated by Joe Blow versus 420 or 440 or what ever steel treat by a skilled tradesman that does only that is a totaly different product than Joe Blows work.

I see on Graham knives that he mentiones Treated by Boss. That must be some fellow. Sounds like he is the one to ask. Maybe direct your question to Graham knives on the net. Great people, I have chatted with them back and forth via email.

Meanwhile I will learn what M-4 is besides it being a tool steel because of the letter being before the number. CPM 150 cm is better than 150 cm. If I have the number right but you get my point. The more carbon IE Letter before number as in tool steel the better the steel but needs more care. I do not know what they are doing with this N680 and all it realtives to make them so corrision resistant but I think there is something they are not telling us. I now own a very large benchmade axis lock, looks like their bone collector series in N680, it seems to sharpen well but time will tell how well it holds up.:)

Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...

Huh???

nativecajun57 said:
(snip)
I do not know a thing about M-4
(snip)
Daniel AKA nativecajun
Click to expand...

That much at least seems clear.
Click to expand...
 
nativecajun, M4 is really built for tough work. I know lotsa people use their Gayle Bradleys and some (lots less) use their M4 BMs pretty hard. If it's really the super steel it's said to be, then it probably won't show its true colours until well used.

All M4 is made by Crucible Steel if I'm not wrong. Both BM and Spyderco use the particle metallurgy version CPM-M4.


Mini Grip (with the hole in the blade) does not come in M4, neither is it made by Spyderco. The oval hole isn't a breach of Spyderco's trademark, and there's been an agreement (details not known) between the two companies with regard to the round hole.


With regard to heat treating, you're absolutely right-given identical steels, heat treat makes all the difference in the world. But I have to say that 420HC, even with a Bos HT, probably (PROBABLY, and I haven't handled either) won't perform as well as BM or Spyderco CPM M4 in anything besides corrosion resistance.

I honestly don't understand your last paragraph, sorry! CPM steels aren't all tool steels (though M4 is in this case). CPM stands for particle metallurgy, not for carbon content.

I'm assuming that the BM knife you own is the 111H20 folder. Fine knife, though it reminds me more of the 950 than the bone collector.
 
To the OP:

My experience of Benchmade's M4 had been pretty good. Sorry that your experience was not similar.

To nativecajun57:
Before you give advice to somebody better get your facts straight. There are plenty of knowledgeable folks here and they are not hesitant to point out misinformation. Your post contains way too many gross inaccuracies.
 
clockman said:
Ive got 2 Benchmade knives in m 4 steel. Ive only used the knives for light and medium cutting nothing heavy duty. After all the good things Ive read and heard about m 4 steel I wasnt very impressed with BM m 4 steel.
Click to expand...

What aspect did you find lacking?

I have a few Benchmade knives in M4 (I use a Gaucho the most in this metal) and examples of the Mule and Gayle Bradley.

Not sure on the wear resistance as I don't check for this quality much anymore, but I get the edge I like with more ease with M4 than many more common steels.

That is what I like about many carbon steels - the ease of getting a shaving (and usually much sharper) edge. None of this super burr stuff, no fussing about with stringy edges, etc. that is found with many stainless steels. Get your edge and maintaining the edge is easy with M4 and such.
 
Actually, every steel-producing company seems to have their own version of PM M4. There's Latrobe Duratech M4, Hitachi HAP10, Carpenter M4, and so on. It's a popular steel for cutting tools. Only Crucible's CPM-M4 has been used extensively in knives as I'm aware of.
 
cotdt said:
So now Benchmades are being made by Spyderco? Haha I don't think so. My Benchmade M4 and Spyderco M4 are quite different. They can both take a wicked sharp edge but the similarities end there.
Click to expand...

Just curious what you mean when you say the similarities end at a sharp edge?
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Just curious what you mean when you say the similarities end at a sharp edge?
Click to expand...

Both my Spyderco and Benchmade M4 are easy to sharpen to a hair-whittling edge, but the Benchmade gets edge damage more easily and often, and edge holding is noticeably less than the Spyderco.
 
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