M.D. ESEE Izula question

[Waldamir]

according to M.D. law ""Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku."
" (1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person.
(2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner."

But I have also heard that carry of ANY fixed blade concealed is illegal but by technical definition an esee izula does not match a Dirk, bowie, switchblade, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckle, razor or nunchaku. I will provide definitions of Dirk and bowie along with sources. I am only providing definitions for Dirk and bowie since the style of the izula is comparable to both of these.

Definition of dirk-"Dirk is a Scottish word for a short dagger. It is a cut-down sword blade mounted on a dagger hilt, rather than a knife blade. Its blade length and style varied, but it was generally 7–14 inches (170 to 350 mm).
In U.S, dirk is a term used in the knife laws of several states. While it generally means any double-edged knife, the legal meaning may vary from state to state."

Definition of bowie-" Bowie knife is a large knife with a cross guard and a blade with a clipped point. It was designed to be part of a gentleman’s attire, and the key difference between the bowie knife and a hunting knife, a dagger, or a dirk is the quality of finish of the Bowie. Bowie knives comes in a variety of forms—with or without guards, with differently shaped blades—and often are adorned with silver and other decoration, sometimes including etching and/or engraving on their metal surfaces. Although used in personal combat its design supports the understanding that it is primarily used for cutting. The knife got its name from the Bowie family who settled in early Arkansas and Louisiana."

By these definitions wouldn't that make the esee izula perfectly legal to carry inside a purse/bag/backpack with out the intent of committing a crime with it?

Sources: knife-expert.com/md.txt
definitions.uslegal.com/

 

[glistam]

Hi, nice to see another Marylander on here once in a while.

Unfortunately you're only partially correct. While "dirk" and "bowie" have specific meanings in a dictionary, those meanings do not appear in the statute itself, leaving them legally undefined. Because they are undefined, it is entirely up to the individual police officer, and later the judge, if a knife is a "dangerous weapon." Note from the language of the full law that while several weapons are named, the definition of "dangerous weapon" is not restricted to those weapons. Any item besides a folder or handgun can be included, though the burden then shifts to the state to prove why it is a weapon, based on defendant's behavior, statements and circumstances of the discovery. A cop I interviewed told me even a broken tree limb can be a dangerous weapon if you use it to rob someone or beat them, but if you doing yard trimming it's not.

Here's a example. In State v Hutton, the defendant was stopped for allegedly running a stop sign and when asked if he had weapons, revealed two Boye Basics. They look like this and have blades less than 4":

The officer gave him a citation for carrying a concealed dangerous weapon. However, the judge threw the charge out before trial. The reason was that when asked why he had knives, Hutton explained he was a sculptor and also just kept them for general work. He had no priors, was cordial and there was no evidence he was going to use his knives to commit a crime.

The point is, even though the judge let it go, he was still burdened with having to deal with court system. In a strange twist, if he'd kept his mouth shut and not told the cop he had knives, he'd have never been cited. Cops do not go through your stuff unless you've broken some other law or are acting suspiciously, so if you behave yourself in general, nobody will even find out you have an Izula, especially if it's in a bag.

Better source: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/Statute_Web/gcr/4-101.pdf

 

[Waldamir]

Hi, nice to see another Marylander on here once in a while.

Unfortunately you're only partially correct. While "dirk" and "bowie" have specific meanings in a dictionary, those meanings do not appear in the statute itself, leaving them legally undefined. Because they are undefined, it is entirely up to the individual police officer, and later the judge, if a knife is a "dangerous weapon." Note from the language of the full law that while several weapons are named, the definition of "dangerous weapon" is not restricted to those weapons. Any item besides a folder or handgun can be included, though the burden then shifts to the state to prove why it is a weapon, based on defendant's behavior, statements and circumstances of the discovery. A cop I interviewed told me even a broken tree limb can be a dangerous weapon if you use it to rob someone or beat them, but if you doing yard trimming it's not.

Here's a example. In State v Hutton, the defendant was stopped for allegedly running a stop sign and when asked if he had weapons, revealed two Boye Basics. They look like this and have blades less than 4":

The officer gave him a citation for carrying a concealed dangerous weapon. However, the judge threw the charge out before trial. The reason was that when asked why he had knives, Hutton explained he was a sculptor and also just kept them for general work. He had no priors, was cordial and there was no evidence he was going to use his knives to commit a crime.

The point is, even though the judge let it go, he was still burdened with having to deal with court system. In a strange twist, if he'd kept his mouth shut and not told the cop he had knives, he'd have never been cited. Cops do not go through your stuff unless you've broken some other law or are acting suspiciously, so if you behave yourself in general, nobody will even find out you have an Izula, especially if it's in a bag.

Better source: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/Statute_Web/gcr/4-101.pdf

99.99999999999% of the time I mind my own business when out and about. The purpose of the izula is if i decide to go on a hike and want a fixed blade or I just want need something that I can use harder then my para 2 for utility of course. I walk everywhere but I never really go looking for trouble but I also carry my maxpedition remora as a man purse/ light weight EDC bag.

 

[glistam]

Another thing to remember is open carry of any knife is legal. Even a sword. The line in the law about "openly with the intent" only applies when menacing or attacking another person in an illegal manner.

Also I have noticed in practice that knives that are concealed but "stowed" in some way so they are not really accessible tend to be ignored by cops. Like fishing tackle boxes or inside loaded down backpacks.

 

[Waldamir]

Another thing to remember is open carry of any knife is legal. Even a sword. The line in the law about "openly with the intent" only applies when menacing or attacking another person in an illegal manner.

Also I have noticed in practice that knives that are concealed but "stowed" in some way so they are not really accessible tend to be ignored by cops. Like fishing tackle boxes or inside loaded down backpacks.

So in a nutshell I would be fine? The knife would be in the back pocket of the main compartment of my remora (not sure if you know anything about that bag)
and just sit there unless I'm in the woods in which case it would be on my belt or in use.

 

[glistam]

I finally looked up the remora. I would say if it's concealed in there, that's pushing it. Weapons in women's purses have been charged as concealed weapons, because technically you can get to the contents easily. As opposed to a camping frame-pack with a belt. However, it is unlikely an officer will ever look unless you give him a reason. I heard a joke from a cop somewhere: "Well, don't break more than one law at a time."

 

[Mannlicher]

If I was concerned about knife laws in my State, I'd consult an attorney, not the internet.

 

[glistam]

If I was concerned about knife laws in my State, I'd consult an attorney, not the internet.

Why do we have this sub-forum then? For Maryland at least, I have a very high degree of confidence in my knowledge of the knife laws. I've interviewed cops, prosecutors, defense attorneys, even spent hours at the courthouse reading transcripts.

The worst foreseeable pitfall I feel is the rogue/stupid cop: A police officer with either a serious personal quarrel with someone, or an an incompetent understanding of the knife laws. It happens. In Sorrell v McGuigan 2002 a cop arrested a guy for a 100% legal folding knife, more or less out of spite. Got taken to federal court for false arrest and lost, twice, along with his badge. Cops like McGuigan make the rest look bad, but they exist.