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M2 from BM (710)?
- Thread starter nozh2002
- Start date
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- Mar 17, 2003
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Its obviously not as corrosive resistant as the stainless steels you mentioned but with the BT2 coating on it,its close.
M2 has a high content of vanadium and something else few steels have ,tungsten.
It has excellent wear resistance because of these hard carbides and in my experience with the 6 knives I have, I have found the following.
Edge holding is superior to anything under S60V which includes BG-42,D2,154 CM and Ats-34. Its about even in edge holding to S60v,S30v.
CPM 10V and S90V might be better,I wont include Talonite,Stellite or perhaps BDC as they tend to chip easier and are therefore not acceptable to me as an all-around blade material.
My favorite steels for folding knives are M2,S60v,30V,90V,BG-42. Fixed blades are another story,especially choppers.
Another thing I must mention is that M2 seems to be easier to sharpen than S60V and S90v, it sharpens about like S30V, this is another one of its advantages and can probibly be traced to its carbon steel lienage.
It is capable of being hardened up to 64Rc while still having a tough,chip resistant edge,something that is hard to find in combination in a blade steel. It does better than S60V in this regard.
S30V posses these properties also and is avaliable while S90v and 10V are really too hard to machine and cut to be put in a lot of production blades.
To my thinking if you find a blade you like and it is avaliable in S30V or M2 take whatever you can get!!
M2 has a high content of vanadium and something else few steels have ,tungsten.
It has excellent wear resistance because of these hard carbides and in my experience with the 6 knives I have, I have found the following.
Edge holding is superior to anything under S60V which includes BG-42,D2,154 CM and Ats-34. Its about even in edge holding to S60v,S30v.
CPM 10V and S90V might be better,I wont include Talonite,Stellite or perhaps BDC as they tend to chip easier and are therefore not acceptable to me as an all-around blade material.
My favorite steels for folding knives are M2,S60v,30V,90V,BG-42. Fixed blades are another story,especially choppers.
Another thing I must mention is that M2 seems to be easier to sharpen than S60V and S90v, it sharpens about like S30V, this is another one of its advantages and can probibly be traced to its carbon steel lienage.
It is capable of being hardened up to 64Rc while still having a tough,chip resistant edge,something that is hard to find in combination in a blade steel. It does better than S60V in this regard.
S30V posses these properties also and is avaliable while S90v and 10V are really too hard to machine and cut to be put in a lot of production blades.
To my thinking if you find a blade you like and it is avaliable in S30V or M2 take whatever you can get!!
nozh2002
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Thanks a lot! Best answer I ever have!
So it is because of high Vanadium and Tungsten content:
C=0.95-1.05 Cr=3.75-4.5 Mn=0.15-0.4 Mo=4.75-6.5 Ni=0.3 Si=0.2-0.45 W=5-6.75 V=2.25-2.75
May ask you more?
Who is making folders out of S90V?
Thanks, Vassili.
So it is because of high Vanadium and Tungsten content:
C=0.95-1.05 Cr=3.75-4.5 Mn=0.15-0.4 Mo=4.75-6.5 Ni=0.3 Si=0.2-0.45 W=5-6.75 V=2.25-2.75
May ask you more?
Who is making folders out of S90V?
Thanks, Vassili.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
- Messages
- 530
As far as produuction folders the only ones I have seen have come from Microtech in their LCC and Socom Elite models which were limited runs and are hard to find.
If you want a folder made out of 90V or 10v you may half to turn to the custom makers.
It is my hope that more production knives will be made in S90V but you cant complain when 30V,60V and M2 are avaliable.
If you want a folder made out of 90V or 10v you may half to turn to the custom makers.
It is my hope that more production knives will be made in S90V but you cant complain when 30V,60V and M2 are avaliable.
nozh2002
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One more questions, if you don't mind.
How will you rate the other steels you mentioned - based on you personal experience, of course:
S60v, S30v, BG-42, D2, 154 CM and Ats-34
and what do you think about VG-10 and N690.
Sorry, my interest - just I fill you know what are you talking about.
Also I am using Sandvic 12C27 and UHB17V, may you may say something about it too. Please.
Thanks a lot! Vassili.
How will you rate the other steels you mentioned - based on you personal experience, of course:
S60v, S30v, BG-42, D2, 154 CM and Ats-34
and what do you think about VG-10 and N690.
Sorry, my interest - just I fill you know what are you talking about.
Also I am using Sandvic 12C27 and UHB17V, may you may say something about it too. Please.
Thanks a lot! Vassili.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2003
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- 366
I haven't used any knives with most of those steels yet, but I have one blade of 154CM, and one of M2 (BM 710HS). The 154CM blade is really good, far better than the AUS-8 blade that was its predecessor, but not nearly as good as M2. I've had the 710HS for almost a week now, and M2 holds up extremely well. I use it on a lot of cardboard material, and the performance of the factory edge has not lessened in that week of use. Top-notch stuff.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
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Vassili, I am not a steel expert, these are just my opinions based on my knife usage of these steels.
I assume you are wanting me to group the steels in edge holding ability.You must also realize that the quality of a blades heat treat and the way it is ground and the edge angle all contribute to how long it will hold an edge and how well it will cut.
I have no experience with N690 or 17V, I would expect that if Benchmade is using N690 on its imported folders that it wouldent be better than the 154CM they are using on most of their more expensive USA models.
Sandvic12C27 is a simple stainless not unlike 440A,425M,425HC and preforms about the same.
M2 and D2 are the only carbon steels being used in a lot of Tactical type of folders right know so I wont comment on other carbon steels in this edge holding ability listing.
Performance(edge holding)
#1 S90V
#2 S60V,S30V,M2
#3BG-42,D2,modified D2(stainless D2)
#4 154CM,Ats-34,Vg-10,
#5 AUS10A,Ats-55,440C,AUS 118,Acuto440
#6 AUS8A,440B,,Gin-1,AUS9A
#7 440A,AUS6A,AUS6M.
#8 425M,420HC,12C27
There are many other stainless steels that would fall under #5 in edge holding but I havent tried them all and don't plan on doing so as I prefer a blade of VG-10,ats-34 as a minimun quality level in my folders. If you dident know, 154 and 34 are the same steel,one is made in japan and the other (154) in USA, I have read that ATS-34 is slightly better as it is vacuum smelted and 154 is not.BG-42 is 154CM with the addition of vanadium which gives it a slight edge in finer grain structure and better edge holding over 154,34.
Im pretty happy with any blade that has 154,34,VG-10 or better steel, look for blades that are also Cyro treated, my MOD and TOPS folders that are made of Cyro treated 154CM do pretty well and are good enough!
I assume you are wanting me to group the steels in edge holding ability.You must also realize that the quality of a blades heat treat and the way it is ground and the edge angle all contribute to how long it will hold an edge and how well it will cut.
I have no experience with N690 or 17V, I would expect that if Benchmade is using N690 on its imported folders that it wouldent be better than the 154CM they are using on most of their more expensive USA models.
Sandvic12C27 is a simple stainless not unlike 440A,425M,425HC and preforms about the same.
M2 and D2 are the only carbon steels being used in a lot of Tactical type of folders right know so I wont comment on other carbon steels in this edge holding ability listing.
Performance(edge holding)
#1 S90V
#2 S60V,S30V,M2
#3BG-42,D2,modified D2(stainless D2)
#4 154CM,Ats-34,Vg-10,
#5 AUS10A,Ats-55,440C,AUS 118,Acuto440
#6 AUS8A,440B,,Gin-1,AUS9A
#7 440A,AUS6A,AUS6M.
#8 425M,420HC,12C27
There are many other stainless steels that would fall under #5 in edge holding but I havent tried them all and don't plan on doing so as I prefer a blade of VG-10,ats-34 as a minimun quality level in my folders. If you dident know, 154 and 34 are the same steel,one is made in japan and the other (154) in USA, I have read that ATS-34 is slightly better as it is vacuum smelted and 154 is not.BG-42 is 154CM with the addition of vanadium which gives it a slight edge in finer grain structure and better edge holding over 154,34.
Im pretty happy with any blade that has 154,34,VG-10 or better steel, look for blades that are also Cyro treated, my MOD and TOPS folders that are made of Cyro treated 154CM do pretty well and are good enough!
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I can add that I've had a M2 BM710HSSR for around 2-3 years and I haven't had any problems with rust. I do wipe it with a Tuff cloth from time to time and try to keep it clean and dry. It's been my main EDC since I got it. I'm planning on reprofiling it to an even thinner edge than I have now as I've heard the M2 holds up well in this situation.
nozh2002
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I just ask Santa for BM710HS, thanks for you opinion - it convince me that I have to have it for Christmas!
This matter can not be calculated, because of different HT, blade shapes and edge angles. So I prefer to hear personal opinions from respected experts, then have CATRA tests for example, which can be questioned by different ways by any one.
It is like Photo optic - I usually relay on experts opinion for optic, it hard to mesure other way.
By having such opinions from independent experts you can came pretty close to true.
Thank you very much Wire Eddge, I appretiate your answers.
It's amaizing that M2 not being powdered steel performs on the same level as CPM.
If other experts may rate steels same way - Please!
Thanks, Vassili.
This matter can not be calculated, because of different HT, blade shapes and edge angles. So I prefer to hear personal opinions from respected experts, then have CATRA tests for example, which can be questioned by different ways by any one.
It is like Photo optic - I usually relay on experts opinion for optic, it hard to mesure other way.
By having such opinions from independent experts you can came pretty close to true.
Thank you very much Wire Eddge, I appretiate your answers.
It's amaizing that M2 not being powdered steel performs on the same level as CPM.
If other experts may rate steels same way - Please!
Thanks, Vassili.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
Nozh2002,
It may be difficult to get a 710HS so close to the holidays. Best of luck to you and Santa Claus.
Don't let M2's goodness surprize you. Many low-chrome steels have good performance capabilities when compared to high-chrome steels. The newer high-chrome steels, such as the SV family from Crucible and the Cowery-X/Y variants are pretty amazing, too.
WadeF,
You can run your 710HSSR at a lower angle than 154CM with less risk of chips and rolls on the edge and polish its edge to a much finer-grit finish, too.
If you're a convert from the Sharpmaker to the EdgePro, you'll notice that even reprofiling will be quicker (be sure to straighten your coarse and medium hones when done) and that 18 degrees per side on the EdgePro is much steeper than 15 per side on the Sharpmaker.
It may be difficult to get a 710HS so close to the holidays. Best of luck to you and Santa Claus.
Don't let M2's goodness surprize you. Many low-chrome steels have good performance capabilities when compared to high-chrome steels. The newer high-chrome steels, such as the SV family from Crucible and the Cowery-X/Y variants are pretty amazing, too.
WadeF,
You can run your 710HSSR at a lower angle than 154CM with less risk of chips and rolls on the edge and polish its edge to a much finer-grit finish, too.
If you're a convert from the Sharpmaker to the EdgePro, you'll notice that even reprofiling will be quicker (be sure to straighten your coarse and medium hones when done) and that 18 degrees per side on the EdgePro is much steeper than 15 per side on the Sharpmaker.
nozh2002
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Do I understand corretly that there is other thing wich describe blade performance - sharpness an Sandvic 12C27 outperforms D2 here (according to KaBar CATRA test - initial cut), but D2 beat it in edge retention (more carbids).
So if you will to tune your blade time to time - this is better.
I think it is more important for folders then toughness.
Thanks, Vassili.
So if you will to tune your blade time to time - this is better.
I think it is more important for folders then toughness.
Thanks, Vassili.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
I went 18 with a 21 degree micro bevel on the Apex and it was still much steeper than the 15 on my Sharpmaker. Try starting on 12 all the way to the edge. That should only take 10-15 minutes. You can get a hair-popping edge at almost any grit, but going to the polishing tapes is always fun. If that angle seems too steep (after you use it, that is), try adding on a microbevel. They're usually a good idea.
I tried bringing my 921 down to 10 per side and am still working at it from time to time, so I don't recommend super-steepness unless you have a lot of free time.