M390 or CPM 20CV

gull wing

gull wing

Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
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If you have used both, which do you like the best, or do you find them about the same, for your uses?

I have two Mini Grips, one M390 Ritter, one 20CV 555-1. Now I find both pretty much the same in edge holding, of course I'm not a hard user.
If I were to pick the best at edge keeping of the two, I give a slight edge to the 20CV. What do you think?

I do think these steels are the best I've ever used.
 
I've had and used both and couldn't tell a difference at all, then again, they are the same steel (as I understand it) with just a super minor variance in its make up, I think one of the ingredients is a hair different so that a different company could produce the same steel and call it by another name....right?
 
gull wing said:
If you have used both, which do you like the best, or do you find them about the same, for your uses?

I have two Mini Grips, one M390 Ritter, one 20CV 555-1. Now I find both pretty much the same in edge holding, of course I'm not a hard user.
If I were to pick the best at edge keeping of the two, I give a slight edge to the 20CV. What do you think?

I do think these steels are the best I've ever used.
Click to expand...

Their chemical composition are the same but the process of making them are different. M390 is 3rd gen. and CPM20cv is 1st gen. that makes M390 more fine grained and makes it a tad tougher and holds it's edge longer given the same geometry. in real world use, that translates to nothing as the users won't even notice any difference. remember HT and geometries are critical as far as edge holding and toughness.
 
They are pretty much chemically the same, just made buy different companies. Process wise I have heard the M390 is a little better overall, 3rd Gen PM process, vs 2nd, but I can't tell any real difference in my uses. I will give a sight preference to 20CV personally since it is US made, but thats about it IMO.
 
Given the same heat treat and cutting geometry I doubt even the most experienced among us could tell them apart over years of use in a blind taste test.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Given the same heat treat and cutting geometry I doubt even the most experienced among us could tell them apart over years of use in a blind taste test.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Heat treat is key. I like that BM moved to 20cv for the new grips over M390. There were reports they were having heat treat issues and sourcing the stuff was difficult as well. Plus, 20cv is made right here in the USA. Can't beat that! My 20cv grip cuts like a laser! But so does my Guardian3 in M390! I've done more sharpening on the G3 but touch ups on the grip were easy enough. Doubt I could tell the different.
 
In my Experience I would have to choose M390 over 20CV. I have used both extensively and M390 keeps coming up the favorite.
I have had this exact discussion with several other people in the last few months.
Here is what I always found the steels to perform: Both knives, though not simialar patterns, had the same Rockwell hardness of 63 and very simialar edge geometry.
M390 would always seem to get just a hair sharper
M390 had a more pleasant way of cutting. I just cut so smoothly and efficiently no matter what the medium being cut was.
M390 also tended to hold it's cutting edge a little longer before it would start to drag or tear.
20CV took the win with cutting aggressiveness. CPM steels have larger carbides which gives them an aggressiveness to their cut that I really enjoy, especially in meat.
Don't get me wrong, 20CV is a great steel and I will use more of it because it is less expensive and more easily obtainable, but if M390 was easier to get I'd be all over it.
I still have my original test/EDC knife I made in M390 and still use it occasionally.
 
Big Chris said:
In my Experience I would have to choose M390 over 20CV. I have used both extensively and M390 keeps coming up the favorite.
I have had this exact discussion with several other people in the last few months.
Here is what I always found the steels to perform: Both knives, though not simialar patterns, had the same Rockwell hardness of 63 and very simialar edge geometry.
M390 would always seem to get just a hair sharper
M390 had a more pleasant way of cutting. I just cut so smoothly and efficiently no matter what the medium being cut was.
M390 also tended to hold it's cutting edge a little longer before it would start to drag or tear.
20CV took the win with cutting aggressiveness. CPM steels have larger carbides which gives them an aggressiveness to their cut that I really enjoy, especially in meat.
Don't get me wrong, 20CV is a great steel and I will use more of it because it is less expensive and more easily obtainable, but if M390 was easier to get I'd be all over it.
I still have my original test/EDC knife I made in M390 and still use it occasionally.
Click to expand...

I have to agree 100% with this.

They are extremely close to one another, but over a long time I have noticed some very VERY minor differences in the two with some specific attributes too.
I like the finer grain in M390, and when they are both heat treated the same, you really only ever notice the difference in fine sharpening and in long-term cutting, but I have felt it before, so it is somewhat worth mentioning.

One of my all-time most carried knives, my Shirogorov 95T, is in M390, and it is probably my favorite blade in terms of general performance.
 
Big Chris, I again went over what you wrote. I think it is the aggressiveness I like about the 20CV, but I like them both alot.
 
gull wing said:
Big Chris, I again went over what you wrote. I think it is the aggressiveness I like about the 20CV, but I like them both alot.
Click to expand...

Big Chris knows his super steels...he's one of the relatively few makers out there who has tackled a wide array of them, so it's cool that he weighed (gratuitous size joke, I apologize in advance) in on this...It's funny though, personally, I've had the opposite experience...with my two custom fixed in m390 being more aggressive cutters than my two cf in cpm-20cv. But the thing is, on mine anyhow, it was all about the edge/edge-finish. The blade geometry on the four knives is very similar, but my m390 knives have aggressive toothy edges, while my 20cv knives have polished edges. Of course, a good way to perform a real test is to use the same knife design with each steel, preferably by the same maker, & go from there. I don't know if the gent who's name begins with an A has ever tested those steels like that??

But ya, they're both fantastic knife steels. I esp. enjoy them in medium sized fixed blades, along with Elmax, s90v, etc...I think it's so cool that we're seeing more fixed blades made with great stainless steels...and not just small EDCs either - they're plenty tough, stay sharp forever, & don't react to their environments like the steels more commonly associated with medium to large fixed blades.
 
Big Chris said:
In my Experience I would have to choose M390 over 20CV. I have used both extensively and M390 keeps coming up the favorite.
I have had this exact discussion with several other people in the last few months.
Here is what I always found the steels to perform: Both knives, though not simialar patterns, had the same Rockwell hardness of 63 and very simialar edge geometry.
M390 would always seem to get just a hair sharper
M390 had a more pleasant way of cutting. I just cut so smoothly and efficiently no matter what the medium being cut was.
M390 also tended to hold it's cutting edge a little longer before it would start to drag or tear.
20CV took the win with cutting aggressiveness. CPM steels have larger carbides which gives them an aggressiveness to their cut that I really enjoy, especially in meat.
Don't get me wrong, 20CV is a great steel and I will use more of it because it is less expensive and more easily obtainable, but if M390 was easier to get I'd be all over it.
I still have my original test/EDC knife I made in M390 and still use it occasionally.
Click to expand...

This is the best explanation the OP is going to get.

In general EDC use however, I could switch blade steel stamps on the blades and most people would not be able to tell the difference.
 
I’ve been very pleased with the M390 used on my 810-1401, 761, and GC 531-132..

So pleased, that I have no desire to try -20CV.. But that’s me :)

[video=youtube;LlNQdU0DkUA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlNQdU0DkUA[/video]
 
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