M390 Toughness vs. 154CM, etc... General Knife Discussion

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shreddybear

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Hello!

I've been doing a lot of reading recently about M390 steel. I know there are other posts about M390 and how tough it can be, but I was hoping to get a bit more information and conversation going than what I've already read.

Say we have two identical knives, but the only difference is blade material (one being 154CM and the other, M390). Which knife could take more lateral force/hard use? Etc?

For argument's sake, let's say we're comparing two Griptilians, and that the 154CM blade is at what Benchmade typically sets HRC (58-61). I believe their M390 is 60-62.

I understand tool steels will generally be tougher (I know 154CM isn't tool steel), and that toughness depends on blade shape, edge geometry, heat treat, cutting methods, materials being cut, HRC, etc... I would love to hear people's experience with the steel (M390) as anecdotal information is always a pleasure to read.

How does M390 stack up against S30V?

Since joining this forum I've become quite the knife nut... Recently got a Barrage in M390 and have been really impressed with it. I was also wondering if the M390 version of the Barrage could hold up to this kind of use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-XGT4hvW4 (Feel like the answer might be "it depends".)

Reason I titled this M390 vs. 154CM was because the latter is quite a popular benchmark these days. I think it's a great steel.

Not that I'll be using my knives this way, it's just neat to know what kind of abuse such a knife could handle. Any and all information welcome, I'm here to learn.

Thanks!
- Shreddy
 
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I have not used my knives in the same way as the test. I would have to say that based on the video, your M390 Barrage should do just fine in similar testing.

My experience with M390 has been with the Barrage and a couple of ZT's. I have been impressed with it but it can be a bear to sharpen. My esperience/advice on it is don't let it get to dull. Strop it daily and you will be happy. I think it holds an edge a good bit longer than CPM 154 and S30V but takes a good bit longer to sharpen up. The knives in S30V, S35VN and CPM154 that come back in the shop for sharpening take us no time at all by comparison M390 and CTS-204P are a lot tougher for us and take a lot more time. That could just be something we are doing wrong but this is just based on my experiences and sharpening level!
 
Thanks!

I'm lucky I enjoy sharpening then... Gotta use those stones for something! I can't ever see myself using the knife for that kind of work, have some heavy duty fixed blades for that, but it's still neat to know. And practical or not, there is something really fun about chopping up wood with a fixed blade in the backcountry.

Thanks again for sharing,
- Shreddy
 
Any CPM type is better than the standard types . So give CPM-154 a test.
 
Just curious, would the CPM be finer grained? From what I've read that's my understanding at least.

Would that change how coarse/fine the edge is depending on how it was sharpened? Like, CPM version of whatever steel could have a finer edge? I feel it wouldn't make much of a noticeable difference, but I wonder... Either way, I'll have to try it someday. I've certainly caught the bug, and just might have to make knives one day...

Thanks everyone for replying. Always interested in hearing more from folks on this site. The 581 has been a pleasure to use.
 
shreddybear said:
Just curious, would the CPM be finer grained? From what I've read that's my understanding at least.

Would that change how coarse/fine the edge is depending on how it was sharpened? Like, CPM version of whatever steel could have a finer edge? I feel it wouldn't make much of a noticeable difference, but I wonder... Either way, I'll have to try it someday. I've certainly caught the bug, and just might have to make knives one day...

Thanks everyone for replying. Always interested in hearing more from folks on this site. The 581 has been a pleasure to use.
Click to expand...

The CPM has less occlusions and clumping with alloys and allows for even distribution

This allows for more alloying then possible with ingot steels

The grain size is really up to the heat treatment.

The rest is up to how good you can sharpen.

They all get way sharper then people can even sharpen them.

But I found that the higher the carbide volume the more aggressively the knife cuts.

It also wears to a working edge ( non shaving) that keeps cutting. Versus the blunting found in ingot, low alloy steel

Lower alloy steels sharpen faster and are more forgiving with inconsistency while sharpening.

There's alot of factors for toughness.

It's an inverse relationship with strength.

Too much strength and it's brittle and chips when cutting

Too much toughness and it's too mailable to hold an edge.

An amazing knife walks the razors edge between the two.

We often get too caught up in steel hype.

Thats just one piece to the synergy that makes an awesome knife.

When your looking at two knives with the same design and a different steel.
Your only choosing between wear resistance, ease of sharpening and cost.

The toughness and other attributes come from how it was designed, heated, queched, tempered, grinded, shaped, sharpened and used.

That's why it's difficult to answer "X steel vs Y steel" questions objectivly otherwise I would just give you my speculations on how the steel made me "feel" on any given day.

Currently I'm in a Lam.Cobalt Special mood ;)
 
Wait 154cm at 56 hrc isn't the toughest stainless steel? And it's not even tougher than new more advanced steels? Oh my goodness, I'm shocked lol

Seriously though, cpm steels have SIGNIFICANTLY better performance than there ingot brethren. Those who nay say are close mined and if may say.... ignorant.
 
Occlusions ?? no, inclusions !
CPM have smaller carbides which are uniformly distributed . The process doesn't itself produce smaller grains but the normal HT usually does .

In any of the steels first take care of the carbides , then take careof the grain size .
 
mete said:
Occlusions ?? no, inclusions !
CPM have smaller carbides which are uniformly distributed . The process doesn't itself produce smaller grains but the normal HT usually does .

In any of the steels first take care of the carbides , then take careof the grain size .
Click to expand...

That's right! Haha

It's not blocking anything (occlusion)

Its distinct from the substrate it's imbedded in (inclusion)

That's what I meant but made a typo :)
 
Cpm-154 and s35vn have taken a beating for me and take a nice refined and iniform edge. 154cm not so much. Ive had lots of chipping compared to the other two during use. But dang it takes a scary deadly edge.
Although its not a great contribution to the thread its my opinion. Boy do,i suck at my new phone. More practice i think.
 
BellaBlades said:
Cpm-154 and s35vn have taken a beating for me and take a nice refined and iniform edge. 154cm not so much. Ive had lots of chipping compared to the other two during use. But dang it takes a scary deadly edge.
Although its not a great contribution to the thread its my opinion. Boy do,i suck at my new phone. More practice i think.
Click to expand...

Thanks! And hey, it's a mighty fine contribution, this is exactly the sort of thing I like to hear. It's good to hear how people use their different knives and how they perform. Sure, lots of things differ from knife to knife, how it's used, for what, by who, etc... But you can certainly get an idea for things hearing from so many others and reading other posts!

Thanks again everyone for sharing, always feel free. If you're coming from the future, I certainly don't mind necro posts either--unless it's against forum rules or something...
 
Hey. We are all here for each other. Friends and enthusiast alike.
All we can do is share our experiences.
Any other questions as far as use and sharpening is concerned?
 
Thanks again everyone.

Hmm... Don't think so. I'll be trying to maintain the edge rather than letting it go dull. Stropping etc... I guess I've always wondered if I should use some sort of lubricant when stropping? I've noticed some people use a diamond paste.
 
Thanks! So far I'm very impressed by both steels. Running my fingernail down the edge, they both feel very fine and smooth.
 
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