M6 vs. 12ZM

Bronco

Bronco

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Hey all,
You guys are without question flashlight gods, so I thought I would pose a couple of questions here. I was looking at the specs on the Sure Fire M6s and 12ZMs. Now I personally can't even imagine what 500 lumens of light would look like unleashed in a darkened room, but I bet it's pretty spectacular.

-Is it safe to say that this amount of light alone would have a fairly disorienting effect when shined in the general direction of a home intruder?

-Does the operator need to take any precautions in this home intruder scenario (other than not to look directly into the flashlight obviously).

-Without question the M6 has many more features than the 12ZM, but do any of you knowledgeable folks have a strong opinion as to whether the M6 is worth twice the money?

Thanks in advance.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill

[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 10-02-2000).]
 
At close-quaters, shining the SureFire 12PM beam into someone's eyes is like punching them in the face - they turn away, raise their hands in defence etc. This flashlight does cause temporary blindness if you try to look "through" it towards the person shining it. Not a good idea.

I'd say, don't shine it down at your feet if you're on light shiny flooring 'cos you'll dazzle yourself.

Be prepared to follow the face as it tries to avoid the light - thus maximising your advantage. If you're gonna rush them, now's the time.

I've tried "strobing" the light to disorientate someone - it works sometimes. If it's having a good effect (for you) then why not continue.

The M6 is from what I've read, even more awesome. Try going to http://www.surefire.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000056.html
and read for yourself.

SureFire 12PM and M6 are DayLightMakers.

Never, EVER shine these flashlights into moving cars (etc) unless you want them to crash.

Al.

P.S. They eat batteries, but the 12B Hurricanes are really great value. I'd buy the 12PM again. If I had the money, I'd buy an M6, but my next SureFires will be a couple of E1's and an M2.

 
Alastair,
Thank you very much for the great info and the link. I wasn't even aware such a forum existed. Alas, so much to learn about in this world and so little time. Cheers
smile.gif
.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
The thing about the 500 lumen lights is unless you are also outside they will diminish your night vision as well, just from the bounce light off the object. It is really so bright your eyes will adjust to them and you won't be able to see anything unless it is in the light. It is like your own little piece of daylight
smile.gif
If you ware indoors I would suggest something much dimmer, even a 6P is almost to bright indoors. But I would imagine it would blind quite nicely.

Brock
 
No Worries Bronco...

Brock is of-course right too (!) Once you turn the flashlight on, you really need to keep it pointing away from you, and away from nearby walls etc. You really need to have one to comprehend just how much light is produced! Not only from your point of view, but also get a friend to shine it at you so you get an idea of the effects it produces.
Using these tools as a short sharp shock to quickly take command and disable your intruder is probabily one of the better ways to use them.

 
I have a SureFire M6. The 500 lumen lamp is awesome!!!! I have just got back from holiday in North Wales where I did some outdoor tests. In the mountains at night you were able to make out objects clearly at distances upto 100m!
biggrin.gif


The other story that I have been told about the M6 is that they are used in riot control and prison extraction - the light is so bright that it will disorientate people at short distances (up to 10 feet) even with their eyes closed.

I bought my M6 for keeping in the house "just in case".

If you have any questions, please ask.

Regards,

Ed

PS - buy shares in a battery company if you are going to use the M6 on a regular basis.
 
I smile when I see the shocked look on people's faces when I switch on the 12PM. It's cool having your own lightsabre!

I used to buy DL123As in bulk form Botach, but now their doing the 12Bs instead, I'll be getting loads of those when my girlfriend visits New York in a month's time. I suppose I'll then have lots and lots of "used" batteries powering the Hurricanes.

Be warned, these flashlights EAT DL123As like they are peanuts. In one night, I used four sets, but it was worth every penny (cent; whatever).

Ed, It was the same while I was on fieldtrips to Spain, Ireland and recently the Swiss Alps. When it gets dark, it really gets dark, and the 12PM came in real handy.

I went caving with it, and used it to light up things that I wanted to take photos of...

It's like a mini Sun. Awesome.
 
Super input guys, thanks again to all. Like you Ed, I'm primarily interested in one of these for a home defense application.

As far as batteries are concerned, could someone please explain how 12B Hurricanes differ from individual Duracell DL123As?
And finally, what would be your first choice for batteries to power the M6?

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
The SureFire 12B Hurricane is from what I can make out, SureFire's deal with Duracell to provide lots of DL123As as cheaply as possible for use with the SureFire lights.

I've read that this meant that SureFire had to sell them with a Light of some kind in order to get this deal.

Botach are doing the 12B for $35 (or 12 DL123As for $2.92)
This is a VERY VERY good deal. I mean, that's £1.99 each. In England, Duracell Ultras sell for £7.25 EACH ($10.59 each)

They do 3 12B's for $97.50 ($2.71 or £1.86 per battery)

Where do I get my batteries for I wonder!

I've found the best batteries to be Duracell. SureFire are trying to make it cheap and easy to buy large quantities of DL123As.

Thanks SureFire!

Al.

P.S.
Like I've said before, I'll use the 12B to use up any juice left in the little beauties after my 12PM has down it's worst!
 
Okay, I think I get it now. The Hurricane 12B is actually a lantern of sorts, that is sold fully equipped with 12 DL123As installed. And all this costs less than if you were to simply purchase the batteries alone.

I guess ultimately it's in Sure Fire's best interest to make these batteries available at an affordable price, but I still give them credit for going to such lengths to get it done
smile.gif
.

------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Thanks for all the input on the M6/12PM. After reading this post, others on the two lights, and after seeing the picture of the 12PM on Brock's website, I have decided that I have to purchase a 12PM. I would think about the M6 but $150 is pushing it and $300 is almost crazy (although I thought about it).

I also wanted to add that while the Duracell batteries are probably the best, cheaper batteries can be had for a considerably cheaper price. As Size15s has said, the Hurricane is the best way to purchase the Duracell batteries which will only cost $2.92 each. But if you are willing to sacrifice some runtime, then consider the Sanyo 123A batteries which can be purchased for $1.89 each with no minimum order for that price. They can be purchased at http://store.yahoo.com/electronetdistributors/san123alitba.html

If you would like a review of the different battery types then check out Brock's site, he is the one who suggested the Sanyo batteries to me. http://www.uwgb.edu/nevermab/flash.htm
 
Ya gotta realize that turning the light on gives your position away. Tactics recommend holding the light away from your body, but any disoriented thug shooting in the dark is going to get the bullets heading in the region of the light.

Handgun, not a knife is the way to deal with prowlers. And you don't go searching for them. You call the police and let the prowler come to you. That way you're not giving away your position by making moving noise and flashing a light.

Tell the police where you are, and then stay put if possible. When they arrive, make sure you don't draw their fire by moving around with a gun/knife and a flashlight.
 
As well as holding the flashlight (12PM/ZM or M6) away from your body [I usually have it out at the 11 o'clock position being lefthanded away and over my head]

BUT Also, don't stay in one place. Keep the beam on the target and move about. Close in or seek cover depending on what you see. Moving the beam keeps the target disorientated and helps maximize your advantage.

Yes, let the police do their job, but quick action can dissolve a confrontation / stand-off before it's had time to develop / worsen.

Remember, the Police may be some time, but certainly don't given them any reason to think you're the bad guy. That includes shining the flashlight at them!

Al.
 
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