Machete advice...

[Gene Black]

I need some machete advice/recommendations, if anybody can help. I want to clear a path through about 200 feet of woods. There's enough space between the bigger trees that I think I'll be able to do what I need to do with only a machete.

The factors I'm weighing while trying to decide are: how sharp it will be out of the box, and what materials will retain a sharp edge the best. I have literally no experience sharpening knives, so that's why I don't want to have to do it too much, or at all if possible. Since I only really need it for this one job, I also don't want to spend too much (but I would if I had too).


Based on the homework I've done myself, I think a bolo is what's best suited for what I would be doing, but I'm open-minded to more educated advice. The ones I've looked at online are the Condor, Cold Steel, and Ontario. I've heard that the cold steels don't come sharp out of the box though, and even heard one reviewer on youtube say that it was more of a machete to collect than to do work with. Any thoughts on that? I've heard the condors are made of a 420 steel that needs to be sharpened often, is that true? And I've heard that ontarios need modification to really be useable for work.

So can anyone offer any insight on these brands, or recommend another brand that might be better for the specific characteristics I want (or maybe convince me that sharpening one isn't that hard to figure out...)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[theAntihero]

How heavy of brush are we talking? If its something more than tiny branches id recommend the Condor Golok or Parang. Both are made of 1075 high carbon steel and i can tell you from experience that the Golok comes very sharp and stays that way for a good amount of time. I have resharpened mine a bit but that was more a want to than a need to situation.

I have a Cold Steel Kukri Machete that i love but it does come from the factory with a utility edge that will work but not well.

As for sharpening as long as its not a butter knife its really not so much hard as it is time consuming. But it is just basically rubbing the blade with a whetstone/diamond stone/file etc on the angle thats already cut into the blade. If you are going to use a knife at all you are going to have to sharpen it.

 

[bigbadboom]

If your gonna get a machete you should get a Mill barstard file to sharpen and maintain it. Dont go nuts and remove excessive metal tho. Likely at some point youll want to file out dings etc. What better way to get used to sharpening one than put an edge on yourself. The cold steel machetes are good and its easy and fast to put a decent edge on one. Often they come with a workable cordura sheath. Lots of blade shape variants.


If I was gonna get a stainless machete it would be from Condor - Condor 420 SS seems pretty good , but I would get a plain steel blade myself. The condors come with a decent factory edge . some have noted the edge gets better after a few sharpenings as the better steel is uncovered. Ive noticed the same effect on Opinel blades.
The Ontario blades seem pretty rigid maybe a good choice for saplings etc. ( as opposed to the more whippy blades for shrubs grass vines etc )

Have a look at the machete specialist site theres a lot a basic info there...

 

[Gene Black]

I don't think the brush is THAT thick. I seem to remember my dad doing a similar job with just a machete, when I was a teenager. Like I said, there seems to be enough space between the bigger trees to make a trail big enough for me without an axe or too thick of a machete, although I'd rather be safe than sorry.

If you want, go to google maps and search "Nile st 70056". If you put it on the satellite image, and zoom in, you can see the woods pretty well. I'm in the little group of houses that is on the north side of Nile st with the woods going right up to the back fence. I basically want to cut a little trail from behind my house to the levee along the canal just to the northeast, because my dog loves to run along the levee there. The woods used to be thin enough to walk through, but over the last couple years it's become impossible. I have been circumnavigating them altogether, by just heading west to Behrman Hwy and going north to access the levee that way, but that makes me have to walk through one of the worst neighborhoods in the New Orleans area (lots of junkies walking around, fights breaking out, etc), so I'd rather just try to manage the brush.

 

[foxx]

Condor and Imacasa will come sharp, in my experience, as well as others.
Cold Steels edge will be uneven, and not able to cut paper.
Ontario makes pretty good machetes, but the edge really needs work. It's a good learning blade, for sharpening. Get a file, wear some gloves, and learn.

Really, the lengths are depend on what you are cutting. For wood, tree limbs, etc. I prefer shorter and thicker. For Jungles, you might want 18" to 23", which are thinner so their overall weight is less.
Bolo's are a good design, the extra mass near the tip adds to it's tip speed and bite. Just stay away from the CS bolo, the edge is crappy and the handles are huge and not very ergonomic.
I've got a Fiddleback 14" coming to me, I think I'll like that handle better than my Ontario's or even the ESEE Lite Machete.
You might even consider something like a Condor Golok, Ka-Bar Cutlass Machete, or just a thicker shorter machete, if all you are cutting is wood. Thorny brush may require more length and reach.

 

[Gene Black]

Foxx, Thanks for the info on the CS bolo. You confirmed my suspicions about the blade. That Condor Golok has come up twice now, so I will definitely give that a look. I might pick that up, and then get the ontario "economical 12" machete" from knifecenter.com, and use it to practice putting an edge on, and for a backup.

 

[theAntihero]

I love my Golok and have used it pretty damn hard since i got it, its a steal at the $27 i got it for without sheath.

 

[eccvets]

a cheap machete will work fine as long as you can put a good razor edge on it. I use to hate my machete as I could never really cut anything but as soon as I got a hair splitting edge on it, it would effortly go thru a lot of brush!

if you want to buy a machete like this, the coldsteel sanmai3 series will be pretty sharp but even they will lose an edge after use. better to learn to sharpen or keep buying 300-400 dollar knifes every time you wanna use one once!

 

[twl]

Get a Condor which suits the need. They are the best value for dollar out there IMO, and come very sharp(from my purchasing experience, anyway),
I have a Condor Kukri for the lighter chopping that doesn't require much reach(13" blade), and a Condor Parang for the heavy chopping where a bit more reach is desired(17.5" blade and weighted heavier out near the tip).
Don't underestimate the 13" Kukri. It is a fantastic chopper for its size, and performs really well. It's reasonably light, and it's quick in the hand.
The Parang can perform functions of a light axe, but it weighs more and starts feeling heavy like an axe after a while. This blade has momentum when you swing it.

Condor does a very good job of selling sharp machetes. I think that even though some duller ones slip thru from time to time, most of them come to the customer very sharp, with a proper convex edge
I think if you want a top-notch machete that comes sharp from the factory, Condor is the ticket.

 

[combatjiujitsu]

Buy a couple of Tramontina's, sharpen and go to work

 

[HoosierQ]

Buy a couple of Tramontina's, sharpen and go to work

This ^^^^ Get a machete made in Central America. It's not that we can't make them as good or better here in the USA, it's that when we bother to make good ones up here, they're too expensive.

The whole agricultural system in Cental America is built around the machete as one of the primary tools. Tramontinas and Imacasas are great and made to work. All proper machetes are meant to maintain with a file. I have 2 Guatamala made Legitimus machetes that my father bought back on 68, 69. They have been kept shart with a file ever since and probably have a hundred years of life left in them. In my opinion, unlike other knife like objects, one should probably not judge a machete by the edge it comes with. Take it as it comes, file an edge you like on it, and work.

 

[me2]

I have a soft spot for the Cold Steel machetes and have 3 at present, Panga, Kukri, and Barong machetes. Once properly sharpened, all 3 will hold a good edge. Of the 3, the Barong came with the best edge, an even 15 degrees right out of the box. I've since lowered the edge angle to 4 degrees per side, with a 19-20 degree secondary bevel, but that is probably outside the scope of work you intend to do.

The infamous Cold Steel "utility" edge is quite misunderstood. It's not meant to cut right out of the box. It's utility comes from forcing a new buyer to learn to sharpen large blades properly. . You may have to look around a bit to find a machete that comes out of the box ready to use. Condor is the only one I've handled that comes with a usable edge. All the Condors I've handled were of the stainless variety, and came with polished and sharp edges.

Please check your visitor messages.

 

[twl]

This ^^^^ Get a machete made in Central America. It's not that we can't make them as good or better here in the USA, it's that when we bother to make good ones up here, they're too expensive.

The whole agricultural system in Cental America is built around the machete as one of the primary tools. Tramontinas and Imacasas are great and made to work. All proper machetes are meant to maintain with a file. I have 2 Guatamala made Legitimus machetes that my father bought back on 68, 69. They have been kept shart with a file ever since and probably have a hundred years of life left in them. In my opinion, unlike other knife like objects, one should probably not judge a machete by the edge it comes with. Take it as it comes, file an edge you like on it, and work.

This is a good point that you made.

And, there may be some people who do not know that Condor is part of Imacasa, and that they are made in El Salvador.
Condor is simply the higher-grade Imacasa, with some specialty styles added in, and razor-sharp edges as standard.
And this company was created by purchasing the factory of a German(Solingen) company that had been founded in the 1700s, and had a factory in El Salvador making high quality products, and it was purchased by the current owners. So, this factory has a several hundred year history, and there are probably generations of El Salvadorans who worked there.
And you can buy the "not sharp" versions which need you to put a edge on them for less money, under their other label, Imacasa.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

With regard to Condor's 420HC stainless: I find it works about as well as most companies' carbon steel, and does not require extra sharpening comparatively. Their carbon steel tends to outperform that from other companies in my experience as well. Condors are the only stainless machetes I trust. They are one of the only companies presently distally tapering many of their machetes.

With regard to Imacasa: Imacasa is Condor's parent company. They aren't sharp from the factory (rough ground to make it faster for you to sharpen, though) and are a bit rougher in the fit/finish department. However, the blade steel is the same 1075 with the same heat treatment and many of the same handles. Good stuff, and available in many patterns not found in the Condor line (and vice versa) but take a little elbow grease to get in usable shape. Once they're there they're fantastic, though.

With regard to Marble's: Also made by Imacasa, they are essentially halfway between a standard Imacasa and a Condor. The edges are sharpened and polished like a Condor but the handle will need some sanding.

With regard to Cold Steel: The edges are garbage from the factory, as they're really rough ground like the Imacasas mentioned above. The handles tend to be oversized and not very comfortable, but you can sand the plastic down to fix that (though it'll make them even uglier! ) The steel is softer than I would like. That being said I own a few of their machetes and they certainly get the job done. Made for Cold Steel by Lasher Tools of South Africa. The Chinese-made models they had (spear point, barong, bowie, kopis, sax) were higher quality--funny huh?--but the factory burned down and the tooling was lost. Don't expect them to return anytime soon.

With regard to Ontario: The edge from the factory is obtuse and with a heavy burr. The blade coating is coarse and will generate a lot of friction until it gets smoothed out from use. The handles are boxy and need a lot of reprofiling from the factory. BUT they're USA-made and have a shallow full flat grind. So that's worth considering.

With regard to Tramontina: The edge is close to usable from the factory but tends to bleed out towards the tip. The scales will need some sanding. The steel is a little softer than I like. But for the money they are probably the best bargain for ANY sharp thing on the planet.

With regard to Martindale: High quality machetes made in the UK, Martindale is the other company besides Imacasa/Condor that distal tapers their machetes, and Martindale does it best. Their pieces DO need sharpening and handle work from the factory, though, they're a little more expensive than many other brands, and their pieces often have a very slight warp to the blade which is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect function. It bothers some folk though. A very good company as a whole.

The pattern and model you choose will depend on your specific targets, and there are many styles that would do well for your specific circumstances. If you'd like more specific suggestions I'd need to know what kind of woods you're in, full range of possible targets, typical targets, desired price cap, and whether or not you would require a sheath. There are other factors to consider as well but those are the big ones.

 

[HoosierQ]

This is a good point that you made.

And, there may be some people who do know know that Condor is part of Imacasa, and that they are made in El Salvador.
Condor is simply the higher-grade Imacasa, with some specialty styles added in, and razor-sharp edges as standard.
And this company was created by purchasing the factory of a German(Solingen) company that had been founded in the 1700s, and had a factory in El Salvador making high quality products, and it was purchased by the current owners. So, this factory has a several hundred year history, and there are probably generations of El Salvadorans who worked there.
And you can buy the "not sharp" versions which need you to put a edge on them for less money, under their other label, Imacasa.

Fascinating piece of history...and darned good information. Thank you. So too for the post immediately above mine here.

 

[twl]

Fascinating piece of history...and darned good information. Thank you. So too for the post immediately above mine here.

For clarification, I don't know what year the El Salvador factory was opened-up by the German company. I didn't mean to imply that the El Salvadoran factory originated in the 1700s.
But it was that very old company from Solingen Germany which later opened up that factory in El Salvador, which was subsequently bought out by the current owners. The factory has been there for quite some time, but I don't know exactly how long.
But it has great roots, and a history.

I re-read my earlier post, and I thought maybe it wasn't as clear as I would have liked the first time.
Sorry for not being clear.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

From Condor's site:

CONDOR TOOL & KNIFE traces its proud history back to 1787, the year GERB WEYESBERG COMPANY was founded in Solingen, Germany.

The quality of the swords, military knives, agricultural tools and household cutlery they manufactured made Solingen the cutlery capital of the world. Over the generations, the world’s largest manufacturer of swords and knives found it necessary to expand operations to other countries to better serve its customers.

In 1964, the company formed Imacasa with a new plant in Santa Ana, El Salvador and filled it with state of the art German equipment. Some of the original local employees who were sent to Solingen for extensive training forty years ago are still working in the factory today, turning out the finest quality machetes, shovels and other hand tools.

Imacasa’s Central American operations were sold in the 1980’s to local investors. Today, Imacasa is one of the largest machete and shovel manufacturers in the world operating 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to fill an increasing worldwide demand for its products.

In 2004, Imacasa developed a first quality line of tools and knives for the North American and European outdoor markets. CONDOR TOOL & KNIFE was born.

Funny enough, though, they misspelled their "birth company," the appropriate abbreviation for which is Gebr. Weyersberg (Gebr. being short for "Gebruder") and the company is still in business today after merging under the name Weyersberg, Kirschbaum, and Co. Machetes imported from Germany and later manufactured by Weyersberg in Central America for local consumption bore the mark and name of "Corneta" as they used a bugle as their trade image and the name was easier for the locals to pronounce. The Corneta name and mark are now used primarily by Invermec, the company that makes Incolma and Gavilan machetes, though the mark and name was adopted by other Central American makers as well due to the popularity of the Weyersberg pieces.

Note that this is just what I've found in my own personal research, and the above may not be 100% accurate. I suspect that it's pretty darn close, though.

 

[22-rimfire]

A couple of things... wear gloves when using a machete. Your hands will thank you.

I always take what 42 Blades says as pretty much fact or about as good as I will ever develop on my own if I had the time to test all of these machetes. I have a couple 12" Ontario's. Get the regular handle design if you choose one and the saw back on some is useless. They make a good "woods knife" for occasional chopping.

I am no expert and I don't spend days out in the woods or field chopping with a machete. So the handle design is very important to me. My preference is either the Condor Golok or Condor Parang. I have both but tend to have the Golok handy, so the Parang does not get used as much. A shorter blade is also easier to use for a person who does not swing a machete much and certainly safer/ easier to control. Either the Golok of Parang would be a great choice! The handles are very user friendly on the Golok and Parang.

I like the Kabar Cutlass machete also if you want something short and it has a great handle. I got it before the Golok by about a year and like it, but the longer (14") blade of the Golok works better for me unless I am doing serious chopping. In which case, chain saws work a lot better or an axe.

There are some two handed machetes around for heavy lifting. Have not tried one of those.

If you get the Condor and it does not include the sheath, spend the extra money for the sheath. They are very good. Serviceable sheaths are a problem with machetes. A good kydex sheath would probably run you about $50 or so. So the leather one from Condor is much more cost effective. I have not tried the canvas sheaths sold by Ben Meadows mentioned in an earlier thread. I may buy one for one of my Ontarios as I have the cheap vinyl sheaths that run about $6-$7 each which do not last. But for something I throw into the back of my truck for occasional use, they work for that.

Sharpening.... I use a diamond "file" that you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot kinds of places. They work great and I use them for axes too. Just sharpen (push) in one direction, not back and forth. Sharpening machetes was ALWAYS my nemesis... I worked with people who could use a file and put a good edge on them quick, but for the life of me I could never accomplish this. Hence machetes in the past got used a couple of times and tossed into the garage never to see the light of day again. With the diamond files (get coarse and fine grits), they work great. If I can do it, you can do it.

 

[Gene Black]

Wow! This place is awesome! Thanks for all the info/insight. If I had posted an entry-level question like this on a message board for any of my other hobbies, I would've had to weed through a dozen or so condescending comments from "experts" calling me a "dumb noob", etc. Thank you for the patience and politeness, and most of all, your valuable info.

After taking everything into consideration, I think I'm going to go with a 5-piece variety pack of Imacasa machetes (with sharpening stone) that I saw on the site that bigandboom recommended (I hope this isn't considered "dealspotting"). It is 5 blades about the price of a single Condor, or other high-end brands. There's only like 3 blades in the pack that I might actually use in the field, but I figure I can use the other ones to practice sharpening on since, like I previously said, I have never even tried sharpening anything, even once. I can most probably sell the ones I don't actually use to some local Cajuns, and make some money back too..

Anybody want to talk me out of it?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Sounds like a good buy to me. Imacasa is good stuff, and Machete Specialist is pretty much the only source for their machetes in the US so I'd hardly consider it deal spotting. Just be prepared to spend some time on them with a file before taking them out in the field with you, and they'll serve you well.