Machete de Cinta (belt machete)

Sylvrfalcn

Sylvrfalcn

Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
3,930
Whenever I'm not making stuff, or out doing stuff, I love to read and research subjects that interest me. Studying pre-revolutionary war colonial America is a subject I find fascinating, and in the course of some study on the subject, came across the following gem.
Spanish colonial infantry in Florida, Louisiana, and California, during the 18th century certainly had axes available, but seldom carried or used them. Instead, they had a strong preference for the machete de cinta as an all purpose tool and weapon, substituting for a hanger (short sword) or espada ancha ("hunting" sword). That didn't really surprise me, what did surprise me was how robust these machetes were in comparison to contemporary versions. A good average blade length would have been around 22", obviously some were much shorter and some were longer. Blade width would be between 2 1/2 to 3 inches, but check this out, blade thickness at spine ran around 1/4" to 3/8". :eek:
For those of you who have owned or handled the HI Tarwar, imagine one shortened a bit, and fitted with a simple, but sturdy, Chiruwa style handle of riveted wooden slabs. Holy cow indeed. ;)
I'd love to see an HI version, but until such time as that I do know where to get my hands on a fairly authentic piece, thick spined, hand forged, and fitted with not wood, but horn handle scales. There's a guy who turns up at the monthly gun show down in Austin with just such blades, hand forged down in old Mexico by two brothers that are third generation blacksmiths.
Think I'm pulling y'all's leg? Here's a bowie forged by Alex Molina (the other brother is named Guadalupe). It's every bit as rustic and rugged as it looks. The blade, 9" long by 1 1/2" wide, starts out at 1/4" thick, and has a full length distal taper (read that, this thing is well balanced and "quick"). You can't hold this one in your hand and not feel just a bit bloodthirsty, can't wait to field test one of their machetes.

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The bowie knife has often been mentioned as the "American khukuri equivalent", but perhaps the machete deserves a closer look. I'm thinking a machete with a 5/16" spine might just do some pretty freaky stuff. I'll let y'all know. ;)

Sarge
 

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ou can't hold this one in your hand and not feel just a bit bloodthirsty, can't wait to field test one of their machetes.

Sarge Quote :
Feeling a bit bloodthirsty are we ?

Would they cut trees down with the machete ?
 
Kevin the grey said:
Would they cut trees down with the machete ?
Click to expand...

Absolutlely. I imagine on very large trees axes/saws would come into play as a simple matter of efficiency, but I've personally felled plenty scrub oaks of decent size with a comparatively thin bladed Barteaux machete. I doubt a broad 22" blade that's 1/4" or more thick at the spine would have much problem with chopping.

Sarge
 
Sylvrfalcn said:
That didn't really surprise me, what did surprise me was how robust these machetes were in comparison to contemporary versions. A good average blade length would have been around 22", obviously some were much shorter and some were longer. Blade width would be between 2 1/2 to 3 inches, but check this out, blade thickness at spine ran around 1/4" to 3/8". :eek:

I'd love to see an HI version, but until such time as that I do know where to get my hands on a fairly authentic piece, thick spined, hand forged, and fitted with not wood, but horn handle scales. There's a guy who turns up at the monthly gun show down in Austin with just such blades, hand forged down in old Mexico by two brothers that are third generation blacksmiths.

Think I'm pulling y'all's leg? Here's a bowie forged by Alex Molina (the other brother is named Guadalupe). It's every bit as rustic and rugged as it looks. The blade, 9" long by 1 1/2" wide, starts out at 1/4" thick, and has a full length distal taper (read that, this thing is well balanced and "quick"). You can't hold this one in your hand and not feel just a bit bloodthirsty, can't wait to field test one of their machetes.

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Sarge
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Email sent on Alex Molina Bowie!!!!:thumbup: :D :cool: ;)
 
No way for anyone else to get one of these machetes Sarge? They don't have a website or anything? Dang.
 
Andy, the guy who sells the knives in Austin is a really decent fellow. He actually goes down and spends time on the rancho with the Molina family, and provides them feedback on what styles and models of knives will sell well up here. For some time now I've been holding back on one of their knives because I like it but ain't got no use for it. It was designed especially for wild hog hunters, and is about as classic a boar dagger as I've ever seen. Generous horn handle, with a stout, but simple, oval steel cross guard, and a double edged dagger blade about ten inches in length. OAL of the weapon right at 15 inches, 15 inches of deadly sweetness. "Pig sticker" indeed :D

I'll talk with the fellow, and see if there's some way I can put you in touch with him, but internet? No, some folks still do things the old fashioned way.

Sarge

p.s.: You've seen an example of Alex's work, here's a couple from his brother Guadalupe, a 7 inch blade "Camp knife" and a 5 3/4" blade kitchen knife. If you like rough as a cob rustic, you'd love these. The horn for the handles comes from local ranchers, the steel is whatever high carbon steel they can scrounge, and the handle rivets are often just wire rod or cut down nails. The temper is fairly soft, which is often the case with "indigenous knives", but they're tough as hell, take a great edge, and could be resharpened by a vaquero or campesino using a smooth stone from a river bed.

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I'm interested in that machete. Sight unseen, sounds like a winner. Whats the cost?
 
aproy1101 said:
I'm interested in that machete. Sight unseen, sounds like a winner. Whats the cost?
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I'll let you know when I get my hands on one come June 17th. I'll also post pics, etc..

Sarge
 
It was designed especially for wild hog hunters, and is ...

That looks a lot like the knives the people still using here in Andalucia (an also in a lots of others places of Spain) for Hunting.
Old Way Hunting. Jabalies, that´s like wild pigs with tusks(? = big teeth like knives out of his mouth) and Ciervos (deer) are hunted just with dogs and BIG knives. No Firearms. No arrows. Nothing else but dogs and knives. If you trie to use a spear or put a "bit of wood in the handle of the knife" the others hunters think that you are not "male enough".

A lot of then are made by the hunters using steel from old trunks and "all terrain" cars. But if you want to know the versions made by the Spanish makers try to find this...

Brand - - Muela
Models - - - - -Gran Duque, Lengua de Vaca, Lobo, Ursus, Montero, Magnum, Podenqueros, ...

Brand - - Joker
Models - - - - -CC10, CC07,...

And for something of a short, wide "machete" try the Sherpa from Muela.


I hope you´ll like it...

NS
 
The dog has been man's hunting partner since the stone age, and the classic chase with dogs and hand weapons carries on something ancient that is too important to be lost to modern gadgetry and modern, so called, morality. Thank you for sharing that with us NS.

By the way, a bit off track, but my current favorite jack knife is this sailor's knife from Cuchilleria Andujar;

andj33782.jpg


I picked it up to carry with me when I go deep sea fishing come July. A good sharp knife is handy on a deep sea boat, and this one has a timeless look and feel to it, besides a stainless steel blade of good quality that'll hold up to use in the salt. I keep fighting the urge to get a classic Navaja with the curved handle and ratcheting lock blade, a fight I'll no doubt lose. The brands I encounter most are Andujar, Esparcia, and Joker. Any recommendations?

Sarge
 
Take a look at this

I like the looks of that MUELA ALCARAZ-26S Knife they have listed about 1/2 through the page. 10.2 inch blade and a total length of 15.5 inches....

NAVAJA SEVILLANA said:
A lot of then are made by the hunters using steel from old trunks and "all terrain" cars. But if you want to know the versions made by the Spanish makers try to find this...

Brand - - Muela
Models - - - - -Gran Duque, Lengua de Vaca, Lobo, Ursus, Montero, Magnum, Podenqueros, ...

Brand - - Joker
Models - - - - -CC10, CC07,...

I hope you´ll like it...

NS
Click to expand...
 
Sylvrfalcn said:
... I keep fighting the urge to get a classic Navaja with the curved handle and ratcheting lock blade, a fight I'll no doubt lose. The brands I encounter most are Andujar, Esparcia, and Joker. Any recommendations?

Sarge
Click to expand...

From these brands ....

JOKER for a cheap good quality pocket size EDC knife. If you paid more or less like we do in here you will have Knife for each cent you paid. Not "brand", "marketing" or "look" just a serious knife for using/abusing it.

Andujar for the look of a old days "polish" deer stag pocket friction folder, or the ratcheting olive handles "country style" models but NEVER the big ratcheting red and brass "things" that are so popular by internet.

But if you have the chance to put your hands over, try the...

Expósito or JJ Martínez. Most of his models are Stainless Steel not made to be put on the wall and "look prety", but to be use. Yeah. Ever the 12" long blade of JJMartinez is totally functional.

If you like the old models in carbon steel, is harder to find but right now Isidro Expósito (the cousin of the other one) is making a few models in the old way. XVIIIth century style with XIX/XX th century lock system.

I hope you find this usefull.
NS

PS For the sheepfoot marked Renno. If you paid 5-10 $ is okay. It´s a good simple knife able to do the work that anyone do in the "real every day life" (opening letters, cutting strings, eating, ...).;)
 
Sarge, I love those homespun knives these guys are making. Let's see what we all can do to keep them in business ;~).

I agree with what you say about hunting with dogs and minimum equipment. It is primal, like hunting with basic archery equipment. Here in Kommiefornia it is illegal to hunt pigs with a knife, and they have a bill that they are trying to pass making it illegal to course/catch rabbits with sighthounds. I guess they will have to make bigger prisons to hold all the coyotes, since they won't obey this last law......
 
Sarge,
I'm not far from Austin. Does this gentleman have a shop and if so, could you send me the address. Would love to give him some business.
Thanks,
Terry
 
NAVAJA SEVILLANA said:
From these brands ....

JOKER for a cheap good quality pocket size EDC knife. If you paid more or less like we do in here you will have Knife for each cent you paid. Not "brand", "marketing" or "look" just a serious knife for using/abusing it.

Andujar for the look of a old days "polish" deer stag pocket friction folder, or the ratcheting olive handles "country style" models but NEVER the big ratcheting red and brass "things" that are so popular by internet.

But if you have the chance to put your hands over, try the...

Expósito or JJ Martínez. Most of his models are Stainless Steel not made to be put on the wall and "look prety", but to be use. Yeah. Ever the 12" long blade of JJMartinez is totally functional.

If you like the old models in carbon steel, is harder to find but right now Isidro Expósito (the cousin of the other one) is making a few models in the old way. XVIIIth century style with XIX/XX th century lock system.

I hope you find this usefull.
NS

PS For the sheepfoot marked Renno. If you paid 5-10 $ is okay. It´s a good simple knife able to do the work that anyone do in the "real every day life" (opening letters, cutting strings, eating, ...).;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information NS, I think for just a "starter Navaja" I'm going to go with this small (8 inch overall length) inexpensive one from Andujar. I love horn handles on a folder :D

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I really do like the little sheepsfoot blade sailor's knife. I like my folders simple, traditional, and useful. I don't care a bit for all the "pocket toolboxes" or "tactical folders" so favored by mall ninjas. Been looking at a lot of old friction folders lately, about time I made myself one of those.

Sarge
 
I have on of those horn handled Navaja knives pretty much just like in the picture. It is my favorite knife for backpacking, and it rides on my belt in a sheath. A sheath made for a Buck Folding Hunter will fit it just right. You will not regret this knife.
 
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