Machete for an Equestrian Trailblazer?

R

RSharpe

Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
25
Hello,

I have been buying Wal-Mart's poor excuses for a Machete for some time. If the plastic handle lasts a year, it was a good one.

I'm tired of the thing going dull in one ride and rusting after a week.

I want a machete with a very keen edge, that will hold its edge well. Of course, the lighter the better, and I would greatly prefer a 20-inch blade.

I'm looking at this Meyerco 24-inch machete with a "420 J2 stainless steel blade" and a sawback spine and hand guard:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...ge=31&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&SKU=M36016

Here's another one, an Ontario with a 22-inch (bit long) blade made of 1/8" 1095 carbon steel:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...ge=31&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&SKU=MA1475

I like the hand guards.

But, here is a Cold Steel 24-inch machete "constructed of SAE 1055 medium carbon steel dipped in a special anti-rust solution before having a black, baked on finish applied. The handles are non-slip, shock absorbing rubber. Includes Sheath at dealer cost:"

http://www.elinemerchandising.com/97AM24.html

I do like the looks of the sheath.

So, there are three blades that I'm considering, all made from different metals.

I think I want the stainless one, because rust is a big issue. I swim my horse at least once a month, twice this month (crossed a river four times Sunday). I like rigid sheaths, though, because I draw the blade one-handed and like to put it back one-handed too.

Any suggestions?
 
Just my 2cents. For corrosion resistance- 420
For edge holding- 1095
I also have a few of the non-classical Cold Steel machetes and like them as well- the coating will prevent rust and lasted well in my tests
 
Ah! Thanks, that's just what I was looking for. What about the 1055? Does the "medium carbon" mean anything or is all 1055 medium carbon? Thanks!
 
None of those machetes are likely to come with a edge which works overly well. You will want to lay a heavy relief on the edge, how far depends on if you are cutting wood or just light vegetation. The fastest way is to use a belt sander which can do it in minutes. Without this use a file and look at about 15 minutes of hard work. Once the edge is properly reground the cutting ability and edge retention will be many to one over the initial performance.

Most machete steels tend to be out of the steels which rust fairly quickly like 1095 and bandsaw steels. The rust on the flats it fairly meaningless. I generally run a thick coat of grease along the edge and this will keep it free of rust until it is heavily used. Anything you put on it will quickly get burnished off when used so the blade has to be dried when wet.

The stainless ones tend to be really soft and dent rather easily. The exception to this was the ones Aki made out of ATS-34 but I don't think those are in production any more. His parang model sounds like it would be fairly ideal for such conditions - given what is available. You might also want to look at some other knives.

There are for example large stainless knives used to split fish which are the size of a small machete. There are also decent sized Mora knives which work well on light brush.

-Cliff
 
Wow, this is a great forum.

I use a machete <i>a lot.</i> Right now, I use an 18-inch blade, and constantly wish it was about 2-4 inches longer. I need length because i am on horseback. Don't know how to explain why that matters, but it does. I'm usually cutting a swath for riders behind me. If I were walking, the length wouldn't matter as much.

Not too much wood, but some branches, yes. Edge retention is of prime importance, but also, I like the blade to be light.

Once, my horse jumped a ditch and as it was in the air, I drew my machete and cut a low-hanging branch in front of me. If it were heavier, I probably wouldn't have been able to do that. So, what I'm saying is, long and light are two good qualities.

I don't have a belt sander, but I'll look into it. I don't know anything about sharpening or caring for knives, and I hope that doesn't offend the hardcore enthusiasts in here.

I got on here because I want to buy one more machete, the right one, and have it for a long, long time, like 10 years or more.

Is Aki a person or a company? Should I look for ATS-34 blades? Otherwise, sounds like you guys are telling me to stay away from stainless.

Thanks a lot!
 
I have not heard much about him in awhile, ATS-34 isn't an ideal stainless steel for a machete, he was just one of very few who made them for fairly low prices. A better stainless would be 12C27m but I don't think there are actual machetes made from that. The problem with 420J2 isn't that you could not make a decent machete from it, but it is usually on fairly low end blades and thus you are seeing the effect of the manufacturing rather than the steel.

With sharpening you basically have to decide if you want to treat it as replaceable or keep it as a working tool. For maximum cutting ability you grind them very thin, say about 8 at the shoulder and 12 at the apex of the edge. This will handle all vegetation and soft woods well, but you take a 18"+ machete which this profile to hard woods and it will start to ripple along the edge so you need to either live with that and file/sand out the ripples at the end of the day, or increase the edge angle and live with the loss in cutting ability.

You might also want to consider a decent golok or bolo, Valiant makes some nice ones however they are a lot more expensive than a traditional machete. On the really high end you have someone like Kirk craft you essentially a long bowie which will cut very well with excellent edge retention but be about 50 times the price of a machete.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
A better stainless would be 12C27m but I don't think there are actual machetes made from that. The problem with 420J2 isn't that you could not make a decent machete from it, but it is usually on fairly low end blades and thus you are seeing the effect of the manufacturing rather than the steel.
Click to expand...
I understand. After reading here, rust is of very secondary concern.

So, should I get this one: http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...ge=31&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&SKU=MA1475

This one is "Constructed of SAE 1055 medium carbon steel." Is that not as good for what I want as 1095?

http://www.elinemerchandising.com/97AM24.html

Cliff Stamp said:
With sharpening you basically have to decide if you want to treat it as replaceable or keep it as a working tool. For maximum cutting ability you grind them very thin, say about 8 at the shoulder and 12 at the apex of the edge. This will handle all vegetation and soft woods well, but you take a 18"+ machete which this profile to hard woods and it will start to ripple along the edge so you need to either live with that and file/sand out the ripples at the end of the day, or increase the edge angle and live with the loss in cutting ability.
Click to expand...
I see, I see... I guess I don't want it to be replaceable, and I want it to keep it's edge and be very sharp. Are you saying I want too much? Sounds like me...

You're saying the greater the angle of the edge (thus the thinner the blade), the sharper it will be and the longer it will hold the edge, but it will be easier to "ripple" when used against thick branches. Less of an angle, on the other hand, will hold up better to thicker wood, but won't be as sharp or stay sharp as long. Did I get that right?

I know I cut on heavy, inch-thick branches from time to time. So, yeah, I use it like a hatchet sometimes. But, it sounds like I should go with the thinner blade with the greater angle, but be willing to file/sand out the ripples.

Cliff Stamp said:
You might also want to consider a decent golok or bolo, Valiant makes some nice ones however they are a lot more expensive than a traditional machete. On the really high end you have someone like Kirk craft you essentially a long bowie which will cut very well with excellent edge retention but be about 50 times the price of a machete.

-Cliff
Click to expand...
Yeah, there comes a point where spending more money is stupid in my case. Nothing to do with cost, but realistically, the machete will be lost or destroyed, and will not get the care it needs. So, spending $100 or more for one would be gaudy.

Any links to some golok or bolo machetes?

If not, from what i read here, I'll go with the Ontario.

Man, thanks a lot.
 
Rsharpe:
I am glad to se another Horse person here. On the one hand, you need to look at what you are cutting, as cliff stated above. I live in the south, and I only need to cut soft woods generally. I have and use an ontario machete, sharpened with a mill bastard file, and it works great. They have some coating that does wear off over time, but generally, they are great tools. I would recommend going with carbon steel, and just getting used to it taking a little more maintenence but performing a whole lot better.

I do want to know something; how are you attaching a sheath to your saddle? it sounds like you do some hardcore trail riding, I'd like to hear about your setup.
 
First off, HOLY CRAP: http://www.valiantco.com/

WOW. But, no, those aren't for me, Cliff. Would be way out of place. :)

Now, on to Dijos's question, which is a very good one. You don't want the damn thing flopping around while your trotting or running.

I'm right handed, and I ride in a western saddle with a chest strap (that's important). What would hold the girth strap, a leather vertical slit holder, that's where I tie it, edge facing forward. I use regular bailing twine, and tie it through the belt loop. But, when I buckle my chest strap, I run it under the blade first, then over it when I buckle it. That holds it down when riding and when drawing it or putting it back. Doesn't ever touch the horse under any circumstance.

A picture would be better. Someone took one of me wrestling in the river, my strikingly beautiful bay mare standing like a statue right beside me. She doesn't move when I'm not on her. God, she is the best horse, and she has a 15-month old filly just exactly like her that loves people. We could ride her right now not a single problem, but it's too early, of course.
 
RSharpe said:
I understand. After reading here, rust is of very secondary concern.
Click to expand...

Generally, most working machetes tend to get fairly rusted. I just give the blade a light scouring and eventually it will stablize into a dark coating.

This one is "Constructed of SAE 1055 medium carbon steel." Is that not as good for what I want as 1095?
Click to expand...

No, it is actually better.
You're saying the greater the angle of the edge (thus the thinner the blade), the sharper it will be and the longer it will hold the edge, but it will be easier to "ripple" when used against thick branches. Less of an angle, on the other hand, will hold up better to thicker wood, but won't be as sharp or stay sharp as long. Did I get that right?
Click to expand...

Most machetes tend to come with really high angles, 20-25 degrees isn't uncommon. These don't tend to cut well and you get a decent amount of shock as that angle tends to impact heavily. You want to cut that about in half, this gives a much smoother cut. Now you have to decide how to adjust the very edge, the last 1/32" of edge or so. I run mine at about 12-14 degrees per side, this will hold up on all but the hardest of cutting, such as small deadwood branches. Now if all I cut was that wood then I would increase the edge to match, about 16-18 would do it but since I cut mainly softer woods and brush I run it at 12-14 degrees per side. Note again just the last little bit of the edge is at this angle.

This sounds maybe a bit complex, but it isn't really, you start off by filing the edge way back, really low, about as low as you can get, 8-10 degrees or so and then just apply another bevel which is higher to give the very edge some strength for wood work. On light vegetation you don't need this, I have a couple of light blades that I use on weeds and light brush and they are kept at that smaller angle and they cut like lazors. But for wood working you need a bit more angle at the very edge to keep it straight. You just adjust this to match your strength/experience and the blade and wood. About 15 degrees is a decent starting point, it takes a lot to damage that and it cuts much better than the stock blades.

You then adjust this when you sharpen as necessary, try a little lower and see if the blade stay stable, or if you see some damage then you move it up a degree or two. Once you figure out what works for you on one machete then you have a much better starting point when you try another blade as they are in general fairly similar.

Valiant :

http://www.valiantco.com/

I had some problems with the edges on the ones I used, but the customer service is solid and others have seen better behavior. Their base models are about $50. The best machetes I have seen are from Martindale. Daren Cutsworth sells them. They have a wide selection and the steel is solid. I used two ontarios and they shattered readily. Barteaux is nice as well but have a much more limited selection. Nice durable steel though.

-Cliff
 
Wow. I just can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to answer these questions to such ignorant. The last time I sharpened a blade was in Boy Scouts. But, looks like I'll need to learn again. I've coppied your words and will print them out for future refeerence.

But, I was all set on the Ontario until you said the 1055 was better for what I wanted. I like the looks of the Cold Steel better, and it comes with a nice sheath, so i guess I'll go with it.

Still, curious as to why.

Again, thanks. I'll see about getting some pics soon.
 
Machetes and other large blades need a very tough steel, blade steels like 1095 have a lot of carbon in them which is actually what makes it steel. Take out the carbon and it is just iron. The 95 in 1095 refers to the amount of carbon, 0.95%, and similar 0.55% for 1055.

Now the carbon is what makes the iron harden and turn it into a steel. When it is hardened the carbon will form martensite which is just a fancy name for hardened steel, just like ice is frozen water. Now steels with a lot of carbon will tend to form martensite of a particular type (plate) which is fairly brittle. The lower carbon ones form a tougher form of martensite (lathe).

In machetes you want a very tough steel which is easy to grind and thus 1055 is a better steel than 1095. 1095 is a better steel for files and small knives where you want a very high hardness (65/66 HRC) and a high wear resistance. But for machetes this isn't ideal and thus machete steels are generally lower in carbon to make the steel tougher, just like steels in prybars and such.

Sharpening is really easy, I guarantee I could show you how to sharpen any knife in about one minute. The concepts are completely trivial.

-Cliff
 
Can you find Incolma/Siriri machetes where you are? I love those, since they have a broad blade that works like a charm for me, I use a 12" one when I'm on foot (or in very thick bush) and an 18" when I'm on horse.

I would stay away from handguards, they make machetes a lot less verstile. Be prepared to put some work into any machete you buy, I still haven't found one that will work off the shelf and I've been using Ontarios, Siriris, Collins, Tramontina (hate them!!) and Aitors for more than fifteen years in South American jungles and mountains.

I'd go for a 1095 or 1055 machete over a 420 one anytime.
 
RSharpe said:
Hello,

I have been buying Wal-Mart's poor excuses for a Machete for some time. If the plastic handle lasts a year, it was a good one.

I'm tired of the thing going dull in one ride and rusting after a week.

I want a machete with a very keen edge, that will hold its edge well. Of course, the lighter the better, and I would greatly prefer a 20-inch blade.

I'm looking at this Meyerco 24-inch machete with a "420 J2 stainless steel blade" and a sawback spine and hand guard:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...ge=31&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&SKU=M36016

Here's another one, an Ontario with a 22-inch (bit long) blade made of 1/8" 1095 carbon steel:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...ge=31&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&SKU=MA1475

I like the hand guards.

But, here is a Cold Steel 24-inch machete "constructed of SAE 1055 medium carbon steel dipped in a special anti-rust solution before having a black, baked on finish applied. The handles are non-slip, shock absorbing rubber. Includes Sheath at dealer cost:"

http://www.elinemerchandising.com/97AM24.html

I do like the looks of the sheath.

So, there are three blades that I'm considering, all made from different metals.

I think I want the stainless one, because rust is a big issue. I swim my horse at least once a month, twice this month (crossed a river four times Sunday). I like rigid sheaths, though, because I draw the blade one-handed and like to put it back one-handed too.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I'd go for the Ontario. Only watch out for eknifeworks. They'll send you the wrong S#&T.
 
Franciscomv said:
Can you find Incolma/Siriri machetes where you are? I love those, since they have a broad blade that works like a charm for me, I use a 12" one when I'm on foot (or in very thick bush) and an 18" when I'm on horse.

I would stay away from handguards, they make machetes a lot less verstile. Be prepared to put some work into any machete you buy, I still haven't found one that will work off the shelf and I've been using Ontarios, Siriris, Collins, Tramontina (hate them!!) and Aitors for more than fifteen years in South American jungles and mountains.

I'd go for a 1095 or 1055 machete over a 420 one anytime.
Click to expand...
Cold Forge it is. :)

This is why I decided to research before buying another.
 
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