Machete

C

criswell

Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
4
My wakasashi is more like a machete than my Katana.My Swords are all hand made by me personally,A-2 is not even in the same class as inexpensive spring steel.My blank costs more than their Sword.The value of my Swords will go up.Will theirs.





Rob Criswell
 
I'm confused. Your wak being like a machete is a selling point? Personally I don't think that a wak should be anything like a machete but maybe that is just a personal bias.

It all depends on what you want in a sword I guess. I don't doubt that you are correct that your stuff will appreciate in value where some of the other production swords mentioned will probably not. I am sure that your stuff is also durable (although I will say that RC hardnesses in the 60s for both edge and spine seems a trifle too hard to me) On the other hand personally I don't find your stuff all that attractive in the aesthetics department. Modified Americanized tanto points and "modernized" handles don't do much for me. You could argue that stuff made by KC isn't traditional either and you would be right but it is traditional enough to where I like it.

Here is the bottom line: If you want performance there are good performers for less then what you are charging. If you want looks (and by that I mean traditional) there are good looking swords for a few hundred dollars more then what you are charging. If you want some amalgamation of the two then your swords might be the way to go. Not for me but for some people. All this is just my own opinion. It was opinions that the other guy asked for.
 
I use the best materials at my Disposal,as did the masters of the past.Function was my goal not copying another time and culture.

If one part of the sword is flexible and the other is not what will Happen.

My sword was tested by blade Mag. it did not break. Modern technology is wonderful if you know how to use it



Those who live in the past are history.



Rob Criswell
 
I've heard this form versus function arguement before, the only problem with it is that there are makers out there that can make traditional appearing blades with all modern materials and forging techniques. You don't have to be untraditional to make high performance blades.

As a general rule ancient blade forms are that way for a reason. Usually form follows function these blades look the way they do because they were tested in combat and they are what worked.

As I said I am not belittling your work, I have never used one of your swords I am sure they perform admirably. There are just swords on the market that I like more, some more expensive then yours and some less so.

[This message has been edited by Triton (edited 10-06-2000).]
 
<p align="justify">Hi Rob, I bought your Wakizashi and Katana from Rich at Knife Mart, I love them. I think you did a fantastic job! I hear you're planning on making a Gladius, can't wait to see how it turns out. Keep up the great work!</p>

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Full Contact Stick Fighting Hawaii
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
 
Rob:

I've got nothing against you personally. I have to consistently make that a point.

One serious point I will make here...
MORE people will support your stuff than the people who say negative things about it. I insinuate some negative things, but it is not focused at your work. There are *many* other folks making stuff I have negative feelings for. I'm not singling your stuff out by any means, but if someone asks me directly, I don't have to be all smiles and supports.

Just like Triton, I don't doubt your swords can take abuse. I never said anything to contradict that idea. There are just aspects of it that make it unreasonable for me to advocate its use in certain fashions, and design concepts that I dislike.

But you're stubborn, I'm stubborn, neither of us are going to budge most likely...

If you have any further bone to pick with me, my email is available. I don't want to degrade a friendly atmosphere with argument any more than I already have.
 
I am very happy to be a subject on this forum.I only wanted to reply to this post to make people aware that there are Hi-tech methods that work very well.I lived in Japan for 8 months and have a great respect for their Swords.However Science has come along way.I just like to do things a little different than others, and take quite a bit of abuse for it.People fear what they do not

understand.

Thanks for your patience

Rob Criswell





Rob Criswell



thanks for your patience

Rob Criswell
 
Rob Criswell, welcome to the forums, as a maker your work is/will be always held up for critical appraisal, as are the other makers/manufacturers.....not always a pleasant thing as not everyone will agree. But the one thing that has stayed consistent in most all the posts regarding your swords are that they are tough, can take abuse and stand up to it. I can attest for that myself as I have a short sword of yours, works great, very sharp, and is a departure from the Japanese type swords.

One of the things that folks like Robert get under their skin is the use of Japanese terms for your work, better to call them short swords or long swords and leave the Japanese terms to those Japanese swords. Hope that makes some sense? I have no problem calling it a Wakizashi or Katana, but as you indicate your work is of a different nature that those you have seen in Japan. Similar but different.......

So, put those thoughts aside and stick around the forums, you'll get to like it I think, and if you can, post some closeups of your work, as these guys here are pic hungry!

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...

G2 LeatherWorks
 
I would just like to say that I very much subscribe to Criswell's 'form follows function' approach to sword-making. In fact there is, in my opinion, a certain beauty in combining simplicity and function.

Taking a traditional design and changing it is not necessary a bad thing. It may not be a absolute improvement, but times change, and modern methods can be used to simplify the sword-making process, and to make the sword more durable. Any sword which cuts and does not break is a good sword. <Traditional katanas are not always the most durable...due to their decorative fittings, and the fact that they do not have a full tang>

Everyone would have a different opinion on what a sword should be. I'll buy a traditional katana for display, but a modern sword such as a Criswell or Hossom for using. Pity I held off too long and Northwest Cutlery is now sold out on Criswell katanas...
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[This message has been edited by Adamant (edited 10-12-2000).]
 
Adamant, Check out <a href="http://www.knifemart.com/KNIFMRT.HTM">www.knifemart.com</a> I got my Criswell Katana about 2 weeks ago for $310.00 (that price includes shipping).


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Full Contact Stick Fighting Hawaii
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
 
The topic of what constitutes a "real" or "battle ready" or historically accurate sword has been discussed in-depth over at swordforums. Many seem to feel the form & function idea is new. Not so. Historical arms do indeed have the form follow function - they made and used what worked and kept them alive (or aided their opponent's expiration). I think you can get a real or battle ready while not historically accurate sword from various sources. Do these swords work? Yes. Do they heft and feel like the historical pieces? No. Is that OK? IMHO yes, unless you want them to mimic the orginals. Keep in-mind that most sword designs (especially euopean) changed with the treat. A modern sword used as a weapon won't have to contend with much "armor." The one issue I have is constructing a sword like a big knife. The sword will have more stress to contend with and I think it need to be contructed with such in-mind. I would think that blade made of A2 at near 60rc might be a bit on the brittle side when compared with 5160 at near 50rc.
 
I agree that the form follows function idea is not new. You can see an evolution of arms throughout history. I question the idea that this is still going on however and I also question that idea that these "functional" blades are the next step in that evolution.

For one thing what is causing a continued evolution? Swords aren't used in battle any more so that isn't it. Traditional swords are perfectly capable of handling the rigors of today's martial arts, so why would they change? Are you saying that because armor isn't used today that today's swords don't have to be as tough as the the swords of yesteryear? I suppose from a strictly combat standpoint that is true but nobody is going to be carrying a sword in combat anyway.

I think far to often the inability of unwillingness of a maker to do what is necessary to make an outstanding blade is blown off as "unnecesary" because this blade is made to be "functional" not pretty.

I don't know if that is the case with Criswell blades. I don't know the maker, I've never been able to see one of the swords in the flesh.

I agree with your point about 60rc.
 
Triton:

I'll agree that there are no real evolutionary pressures on sword design today. The "old" designs will work just fine. I think that modern makers willing to make the product to meet the same requirements as the "old guys" should come up with reasonably similar solutions. A good "modern" sword should be as usable as an historical piece. I'm not sure it has to be made quite the same or in a similar process - perhaps technology does offer new paths. But to be a good using sword it has to meet the same challenges. I'll also agree that some makers who "bluster" may not put forth the best product. In this case I can't comment as I've not seen the swords in question or talked with the maker.
 
Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the info! I'll be able to get the Criswell once I clear my BIG credit card bill (a result of of my compulsive knife buying)...maybe in a week or 2 <still need to eat, you know.
wink.gif
> Hope they still have stock then.

And I have to say I'm no sword expert, but I believe that with a competent modern swordsmith, form and function can go hand-in-hand. I'll be getting Jerry Hossom's Espada next year.
biggrin.gif
This is the best example I know of a modern sword with both form and function.

Why do I say so?

1) Modern design that is highly functional yet beautiful. Am especially impressed by the high performance blade shape, and the ergonomic handles.

2) CPM-3V blade which in my opinion is superior to most traditional blade steels.

3) A full tang, which offers greater security over the thin tangs secured by bamboo pegs in traditional katanas.

4) With modern steels and heat treating, it is also doubtful if the clay-tempered, dual hardness katana blade is still the best option that many think they are.

5) Micarta handles are a definite improvement over wooden handles, if not the most exotic materials.

6) Proven highly durable and accurate in tests carried out. <Check out the review by Mario in this forum>

I'm not saying that a Hossom sword is perfect. But I'm saying that there are some modern construction methods and materials which are clearly superior to those used in history.

IMO, I feel that modern makers should study ancient weapons for their battle proven designs <they have the benefit of hindsight, the opportunity to compare designs from different cultures, and high technology to evaluate the pros and cons of traditional designs>. Then they can improve on them with modern materials and construction methods.

In some cases, even the design can be improved as a direct consequence of a talented swordsmith, or by modifications to suit certain specific applications (covert use, heavy-duty use, rust-resistance...etc).

Any of the above will definitely evolve the swords, at least in terms of durability and cutting performance, if not in the area of 'battle-worthiness'.

It is sad, that there aren't enough sword makers, or people who appreciate and buy high end customs. These, along with a lack of opportunity to test current blades in actual battle, mean that modern swords evolve at a much slower pace than that which is possible.

Also, I'll like to say again that I'm not an expert...so if you have any opinion that'll provide insight into what a modern sword should and can be, please enlighten me. Also...does anyone know if the current 'in' metal, talonite, will be suitable for swords?
(Been too lazy to read about its properties, so am hoping to get info off you guys.
confused.gif
)

I'm being long-winded here, but I also would like to put forward the possibility that the traditional designs we see nowadays are probably just representative of popular genres of designs in the past. They may not be the best designs, but were definitely the most widespread.

Thanks for reading my humble opinion.
 
Without a doubt modern materials and techniques can create blades that will outperform swords of the past. A Howard Clark L-6 katana for example has been tested exhaustively and has been found to be nearly indestructible. Mr. Clark also uses modern tools in creating his blades. In that respect I guess you could say that there is some material evolution going on. I am not sure about form evolution however. Personally I think that most of the "functional" forms are a step backward or regression rather then evolution. They do not perform any better then traditional swords and in my opinion at least they look a whole lot worse.

Having said that I agree that there is nothing magical about a differential heat treatment. With today's modern heat treating methods it is possible to attain a great uniform heat treat which will stand up just as well to use as any differential heat treat. In my opinion the heat treat is probably much more important then the choice of steel even (as long as you aren't choosing stainless
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)
 
Dear Triton,

I've heard quite a lot about the L6, without knowing much about it. Can you tell me the basic specifications and the price range? A picture, if possible, would be great too.
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Thanks.

Maybe I'll get one in a couple of years time...if I can make enough money by then.
 
One thing to consider is that what 'fits' one person may not be so great for another. I find straighter blades more easy to control - but that's a combination of my body and mind. So, straighter swords work better for me than curved swords. In this case, the change in form does increase function, for me at least. For someone else, who knows?

The moral of the story? There is no perfect sword design. Different designs fit different people better.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Adamant,

I'm afraid I'm not exactly what you would call a metallurgy expert but I do have a book at home called "The complete bladesmith" that has some specs on different steel types in it. I will try to post something about L-6 tonight. If you want to check out Mr. Clark's stuff and his prices check out www.mvforge.com I have to warn you though, we are talking about a couple of thousand dollars here instead of a couple of hundred. Personally those are forever out of my price range but I still admire them.
 
Thanks for trying to further my understanding, Triton. You're a great guy.

In the meanwhile, I think I may have found just a little info. on the L6 blade. Here's an extract from Bugei which you may have already seen:

"The custom swords offered by Bugei are of extremely high quality. Our aim is the highest performance commensurate with the authenticity of the Japanese forging and mounting style. We build to your specifications and can duplicate most classical Japanese sword designs. This includes your choice of tsuka length, nagasa, style of blade, sori, color of tsuka ito, and color of saya. We are also able to build tachi so please call for a quote. The Bainite Katana is made of a special purpose low-alloy steel. It is very resistant to bending, to the point of near unbreakability. These blades can be made lighter and thinner and still remain stronger than conventional steel or 1086. The blades are also springy rather than soft, they will flex more than a normal blade, but the shape will not be altered. These blades are excellent for tameshigiri as well as general sword work. Our custom swords take about 16 to 18 months to deliver from time of order. Payment is in 1/3 increments with the first payment being due at the time the order is placed, the second is due when the sword is ready to be polished and mounted, and the final payment when the blade is ready for delivery."

Price they quoted is $4,250. Looks like it will be beyond my reach for a VERY LONG time.
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My first 'proper' and almost affordable (relative to the L6, almost all mid-range swords are affordable) sword will be a Hossom short sword(Espada), which I will get next year...cost is $1,400...and probably more with the exotic handle and sheath materials I should be asking for. Am saving really hard at the moment. (By now, it is obvious that I am a big Jerry Hossom fan...hopefully my enthusiasm for his work does not come across as being too biased)

Cheers.
biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by Adamant (edited 10-12-2000).]
 
Alrighty, here is what I found in that book about L-6.

"L6 is a low-alloy steel usually used in large saw blades and such. It is a very good steel but is somewhat red-hard due to the vanadium content." (I have no idea what red hard means do you? - T)

"L6 has the following characteristics:

Carbon .7 to .9 %
Chromium .03%
Manganese .35%
Nickel 1.4 to 2.6%
Phosphorus .025%
Silicon .25%
Vanadium .15%
Sulphur .01%

Wear resistance: Medium
Toughness: Very High
Red-Hardness: Low
Distortion in heat treating: low
Rc Hardness 55 to 63
Quench: Oil

Compare this to A-2:
"A2 is a air-hardening steel with very desirable properties. It is tough and wear resistant. It is not for the beginning smith but for the advanced student of the forged blade" (This says good things about Criswell - T)

Characteristics:
Carbon 1%
Chromium 5%
Molybdenum 5%
Wear resistance: High
Toughness: Medium
Distortion in heat treating: very low
Red Hardness: High
Quench: Air
Rc Hardness 57 to 62

So if Criswell knows what he is doing (and he seems to) he should be turning out a tough product. Now if we could just get him to do the other things that you need to have a proper katana...
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I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if you buy a blade directly from Mr. Clark you will only spend something under 2000 dollars. Of course then you have to pay for fittings and polish but it should still cost you less then 4000 dollars unless you get crazy. Even 2000 is out of my price range though. The most expensive sword that I have purchased has been 500.00 and that is probably about my limit. Currently I am looking at some lower cost alternatives, namely a company called Lutel in the Czeck republic and a guy named Glen Stokes in Australia.
 
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