Machetes: Condor Viking vs CS Magnum Kukri vs Ontario 18" sawback (w/ hard sheath)

[chiral.grolim]

I am looking to get a new machete to assist clearing brambles & brush as well as limb-out oak and pine (and maybe dispatch a chicken or two) on my 5 acre property in the Midwest USA.
The 3 machetes I listed are those which appealed most to me and I heard the most praise for in relation to what I seek - a light but strong and very reliable/durable machete with good reach that can handle both brush and at least some hard wood while maintaining an edge.
My current machete is a 12"-blade stainless steel (made in China, no denomination given) bolo-style which chops well but won't hold an edge, has short reach, and the sheath barely functions as a blade-case.

The Ontario is the first machete I'd ever encountered and it is highly rated, made in USA, has a great sheath available, and has the added sawback which can be handy when a swing isn't ideal for removing a branch. Available with the hard sheath for ~$50.

The CS has a reputation for extreme durability and chopping ability and is available with sheath for ~$30 (yes, I am looking tat the "special grade" from Baryonyx)

And the Condor has that brush-hook shape, comes in stainless steel, and with a leather sheath, but is the heaviest and most expensive.

So, who would recommend what for my situation, why, and whom should I buy from?

Thank you all.

 

[TwinStick]

I bought an Ontario 18" sawback 20 yrs ago from Cabela's. I still have it. It is still awesome. So awesome in fact, that i recently bought a 12" ontario & modded it to my liking. It is friggin awesome too. Heat treat & good steel is everything in a machete. I try to buy stuff made in the USA when i can afford to. The Ontario is still affordable. Buy from Baryonyx.

Want pics ?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I stand firmly by my original vote for the Viking, largely because I've used mine extensively for very similar tasks to those you describe and it's performed flawlessly. In spite of the crazy number of machetes (some custom) I own it remains amongst my top 3 favorites.

Any of the three would do well for you, but the Viking will vastly outstrip the other two for the tasks you describe, and though it's heavier than the others it's still a good endurance chopper since you can let the weight do the work. Very easy swings just to point it in the right direction is all you need.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Alas for only 2 replies! Thank you for both.

Alright, FortyTwoBlades, i just noticed that Condor offers that Thai Enep in 18" as well (very similar to the CS Magnum Kukri). Do you prefer the Viking to that as well (which I assume you have tried)?

Oh, and my wife asked my why i didn't simply get a Scythe for the brambles. Do you feel that that would work better or is too specialized for grasses and I'm better off with the machete? I should mention that it is my wife's intention to plant a small wheat crop for next year and have me harvest it (think 30'x30' plot).

I am worried about the weight & balance of the Viking (and the apparent lack of a lanyard hole, though I could simply wrap a thong onto it). I rarely am out alone on the land, especially when hiking the woods - my wife and/or daughters are in-tow, so safety of use is a concern and heavier tools very often extrapolate to reduced safety, especially when swinging less than perpendicular to the ground as is the case cutting brambles, etc. I already have heavy wood cutting/splitting tools, namely axes and an HI khukuri. While i will certainly use the machete i get for limbing harder materials, it's primary purpose will be lighter materials. I like the balance and ergonomics of the machete I have, but the short reach and inability to keep an edge make it an annoyance against brambles (they get me before i get them).

Indeed, can anyone compare for me the edge-holding abilities of Condor machetes to those of Ontario? And would that stainless Viking keep its edge as well or better than those non-stainless alternatives?

Thank you again for any and all replies. I hope to make a final decision soon...

(and while $50 may seem a small sum to bother so much about, I am not really wealthy enough to buy more than one of these machetes at the same time to try out, and not savy enough to sell off ones i don't like as much... I'd rather make the best decision on it that I can and make the most of it afterward).

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Alas for only 2 replies! Thank you for both.

Alright, FortyTwoBlades, i just noticed that Condor offers that Thai Enep in 18" as well (very similar to the CS Magnum Kukri). Do you prefer the Viking to that as well (which I assume you have tried)?

Oh, and my wife asked my why i didn't simply get a Scythe for the brambles. Do you feel that that would work better or is too specialized for grasses and I'm better off with the machete? I should mention that it is my wife's intention to plant a small wheat crop for next year and have me harvest it (think 30'x30' plot).

I am worried about the weight & balance of the Viking (and the apparent lack of a lanyard hole, though I could simply wrap a thong onto it). I rarely am out alone on the land, especially when hiking the woods - my wife and/or daughters are in-tow, so safety of use is a concern and heavier tools very often extrapolate to reduced safety, especially when swinging less than perpendicular to the ground as is the case cutting brambles, etc. I already have heavy wood cutting/splitting tools, namely axes and an HI khukuri. While i will certainly use the machete i get for limbing harder materials, it's primary purpose will be lighter materials. I like the balance and ergonomics of the machete I have, but the short reach and inability to keep an edge make it an annoyance against brambles (they get me before i get them).

Indeed, can anyone compare for me the edge-holding abilities of Condor machetes to those of Ontario? And would that stainless Viking keep its edge as well or better than those non-stainless alternatives?

Thank you again for any and all replies. I hope to make a final decision soon...

(and while $50 may seem a small sum to bother so much about, I am not really wealthy enough to buy more than one of these machetes at the same time to try out, and not savy enough to sell off ones i don't like as much... I'd rather make the best decision on it that I can and make the most of it afterward).

The Enep Machete is a very nice piece of work with enough of a handle that you can two-hand it if you have to. The forward sweep of the blade helps with cuts on lighter targets, but that region is pretty far down on the blade so it doesn't really make a big difference. I consider the Enep best suited to chopping medium- to heavy-weight woody targets as the shorter length (compared to the Viking) lowers its tip velocity and it lack the hook, which is what, on the Viking, compensates for the forward mass when cutting light targets. I would take the Enep rather than the Magnum Kukri for the tasks you describe if it were up to me, but mostly for the extra reach. The Magnum Kukri would actually do better on light targets but you'd run the risk of scratching your knuckles up. The Enep would easily outclass the Magnum Kukri in a chop-off on heavy targets, but as you said, you already have stuff for that. So much about the advantage of the Viking is specifically the combination of reach and the presence of the hook. The forward mass just also allows it to chop heavy targets easily as well.

A scythe with a bush blade on it will take out brambles nicely BUT new ones are expensive, old ones are often in crapped-out condition and require an experienced eye to pick out the good ones, and the technique isn't intuitive. Also they're heavier and much harder to carry than a machete! Wonderful for using out in the back forty though, and they do a fine job when you have a well-maintained scythe and good technique. I just wouldn't want to lug one out on a trail! For harvesting wheat with a scythe you'd really need to make a cradle for it anyhow, which is a whole other kettle of fish. The cradle would mean that refitting it for bramble clearing would not be so simple as swapping out the blade. The alternative to a cradle scythe for wheat harvesting is a hooked stick and a sickle. The goal when harvesting grains is to keep all of the stalks facing the same direction, and that's what the cradle is for. When using a hooked stick and sickle the hooked stick grabs the stalks in a bundle which you then cut with the sickle.

The actual weight of the Viking is not uncomfortable (to me at least) and the balance is ideal for the tasks you were describing (clearing a combination of both light and medium/heavy woody targets.) You'll find that the forward weight actually does most of the work for you. Don't work hard when you can be lazy about it! With regard to the lack of a lanyard hole I generally advise not to use them. If you are so tired that you actually need one...you need to stop chopping NOW and take a break. When you get tired you get dangerous, regardless of if you lose your grip or not--long before you lose the ability to hold the machete, you'll have lost the ability to swing it safely and accurately. This is how people end up hitting themselves or others near them, often times the result of a glancing blow that resulted from being physically exhausted and not listening to their body.

Ontario machetes hold an edge nearly as well as Condors, though not quite. Their heat treatment generally is a little softer than what Condor does. Condor's stainless holds an edge very well indeed, and I find it compares very closely to their carbon steel models. As I believe I mentioned previously, they're nearly the only stainless machetes I trust!

Like I said, the other models you're looking at would work just fine as well, but for maximum performance I think the Viking would fit the bill. If the price drives you towards another model it'll still get the job done. The Viking just does it best.

 

[RemyKaze]

Alas for only 2 replies! Thank you for both.

Alright, FortyTwoBlades, i just noticed that Condor offers that Thai Enep in 18" as well (very similar to the CS Magnum Kukri). Do you prefer the Viking to that as well (which I assume you have tried)?

Oh, and my wife asked my why i didn't simply get a Scythe for the brambles. Do you feel that that would work better or is too specialized for grasses and I'm better off with the machete? I should mention that it is my wife's intention to plant a small wheat crop for next year and have me harvest it (think 30'x30' plot).

I am worried about the weight & balance of the Viking (and the apparent lack of a lanyard hole, though I could simply wrap a thong onto it). I rarely am out alone on the land, especially when hiking the woods - my wife and/or daughters are in-tow, so safety of use is a concern and heavier tools very often extrapolate to reduced safety, especially when swinging less than perpendicular to the ground as is the case cutting brambles, etc. I already have heavy wood cutting/splitting tools, namely axes and an HI khukuri. While i will certainly use the machete i get for limbing harder materials, it's primary purpose will be lighter materials. I like the balance and ergonomics of the machete I have, but the short reach and inability to keep an edge make it an annoyance against brambles (they get me before i get them).

Indeed, can anyone compare for me the edge-holding abilities of Condor machetes to those of Ontario? And would that stainless Viking keep its edge as well or better than those non-stainless alternatives?

Thank you again for any and all replies. I hope to make a final decision soon...

(and while $50 may seem a small sum to bother so much about, I am not really wealthy enough to buy more than one of these machetes at the same time to try out, and not savy enough to sell off ones i don't like as much... I'd rather make the best decision on it that I can and make the most of it afterward).

Personally, I say go with Tramontina. Proven for decades, super cheap. Also, I have a smaller CS Kukri machete, and I will tell you that the blade shape lends itself easily to heavy chopping with little effort. That being said, I've used a machete built like the Viking before, and it had the same excellent forward weight in the swing. Kinda like an axe but with a lot more cutting surface? I can't speak for Condor beyond hearsay, but they do use some great carbon steel, so I would expect them to hold up well. Add to that, that everyone loves the Condor Golok, and you see the favor kinda sits in their corner.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The very biggest concern I personally have in situations involving brambles is reach. A short machete like the CS will result in badly chowed hands more often than you'd guess!

 

[chiral.grolim]

...The Enep would easily outclass the Magnum Kukri in a chop-off on heavy targets, but as you said, you already have stuff for that. So much about the advantage of the Viking is specifically the combination of reach and the presence of the hook. The forward mass just also allows it to chop heavy targets easily as well.

A scythe ... new ones are expensive, old ones are often in crapped-out condition and require an experienced eye to pick out the good ones, and the technique isn't intuitive ... wouldn't want to lug one out on a trail! For harvesting wheat with a scythe you'd really need to make a cradle for it anyhow, which is a whole other kettle of fish ...

... a hooked stick and a sickle...

The actual weight of the Viking is not uncomfortable ... and the balance is ideal for the tasks you were describing ... You'll find that the forward weight actually does most of the work for you. ... With regard to the lack of a lanyard hole I generally advise not to use them. If you are so tired that you actually need one...you need to stop chopping NOW and take a break...

Ontario machetes hold an edge nearly as well as Condors, though not quite. Their heat treatment generally is a little softer than what Condor does. Condor's stainless holds an edge very well indeed, and I find it compares very closely to their carbon steel models. As I believe I mentioned previously, they're nearly the only stainless machetes I trust!

Like I said, the other models you're looking at would work just fine as well, but for maximum performance I think the Viking would fit the bill. If the price drives you towards another model it'll still get the job done. The Viking just does it best.

Again, thank you for the reply, especially one so well detailed.

Regarding the scythe, that is excellent food for thought. I think I'll stick with machetes until we've acquired enough land and become adept at crop-growing and harvesting that the investment in a scythe (old or new) is more logical, as those are tools I have never handled or put to use.
Regarding the hooked stick and sickle, I have used a hooked-stick in combination with a machete before... do you think it is silly to use a machete rather than a sickle for harvesting grains? Would I be hurting myself by employing the same tool for both brush clearing and wheat harvesting?

Regarding lanyards, I am one who prefers them on many of my tools. Most of the time I'm working with these items, i have leather gloves on and am less able to judge when I'll lose grip on the tool (especially following an impact) and also less able to re-establish a lost grip immediately. While the flare/ball on the Viking's handle certainly aids in retention of the tool, and I'll probably never need the added security of the lanyard, I like to have it there.
Regarding the weight, I'll take your word for it that the Viking handles easily. My concern was not about using it while tired but about momentum in the swing - weight balanced toward the tip means that more effort/focus is required to control (specifically to STOP) both the backward and forward swing of the tool. This is the same reason I consider axes inherently more dangerous for splitting wood than a shorter tool perhaps coupled with a baton - a bad swing with the axe is harder to stop. That said, I still use a 24" splitting axe for reducing oak rounds because it is so much more efficient, I just keep others (and rocks/concrete) at a safe distance. It sounds like that is what i should do with this machete - get the most efficient tool and keep others at a safe distance (and out of the path should the blade snap or come lose from my hand).

Sooo.... If I am going with the Viking, can you describe or perhaps post a video of how you find the hooked blade to be most useful when clearing brush/brambles?

Thank you again.

 

[TheGame]

Of the machetes mentioned, I would also go with the Viking. I have used one quite a bit, and it has served me well. It isn't uncomfortable, and for the size it handles great. Definitely a great machete.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Again, thank you for the reply, especially one so well detailed.

Regarding the scythe, that is excellent food for thought. I think I'll stick with machetes until we've acquired enough land and become adept at crop-growing and harvesting that the investment in a scythe (old or new) is more logical, as those are tools I have never handled or put to use.
Regarding the hooked stick and sickle, I have used a hooked-stick in combination with a machete before... do you think it is silly to use a machete rather than a sickle for harvesting grains? Would I be hurting myself by employing the same tool for both brush clearing and wheat harvesting?

Regarding lanyards, I am one who prefers them on many of my tools. Most of the time I'm working with these items, i have leather gloves on and am less able to judge when I'll lose grip on the tool (especially following an impact) and also less able to re-establish a lost grip immediately. While the flare/ball on the Viking's handle certainly aids in retention of the tool, and I'll probably never need the added security of the lanyard, I like to have it there.
Regarding the weight, I'll take your word for it that the Viking handles easily. My concern was not about using it while tired but about momentum in the swing - weight balanced toward the tip means that more effort/focus is required to control (specifically to STOP) both the backward and forward swing of the tool. This is the same reason I consider axes inherently more dangerous for splitting wood than a shorter tool perhaps coupled with a baton - a bad swing with the axe is harder to stop. That said, I still use a 24" splitting axe for reducing oak rounds because it is so much more efficient, I just keep others (and rocks/concrete) at a safe distance. It sounds like that is what i should do with this machete - get the most efficient tool and keep others at a safe distance (and out of the path should the blade snap or come lose from my hand).

Sooo.... If I am going with the Viking, can you describe or perhaps post a video of how you find the hooked blade to be most useful when clearing brush/brambles?

Thank you again.

My pleasure! The ways I find it handiest to use the hook is either a light upward flick of the wrist when I'm standing close to the plant I wish to cut, holding the machete with my thumb on the flat of the grip and doing a pendulum-like swing back and forth for rapid swath removal in medium or light resistance targets, or holding the machete "backwards" with the hook facing forwards if tackling really tough stuff.