Machetes vs. expensive magic steel knives, survival

Darrell3644

Darrell3644

Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
31
Wouldn't an inexpensive machete out chop all these hyped up expensive outdoors knives that go through all those ridiculous tests that supposedly proves that they are the strongest, best choppers, etc. which are made of the so called best "steel" available?

It seems to me that if one had a machete and a small fixed blade or even a folding knife, that one could do the same thing; chopping, cutting, whatever, without spending hundreds of dollars on an expensive knife that claims it is the greatest thing around.

I am not talking about military, which does have special needs, but about everyone else.

I think that many knife enthusiasts have fantasies about the whole survival senario that they will be lost in the woods someday and their expensive amazing knife will save the day. That is just a fantasy. For one, if you are lost in the woods in the first place then you are probably too stupid to survive. Your knife will probably not save you. Survival depends on a lot more than just a knife. Like not being lost for example.

Hey, I have a lot of knives, some of them fairly expensive, I like knives just as everyone else does on this forum, but I think that for realities sake, a person with a cheap machete, and a decent small folding or fixed blade knife could do anything a person wanted to do without buying one of the expensive fixed blade knives.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong.
 
You are exactly right. I have sold off many of my more expensive medium-to-big choppers for this very reason. Not that I don't enjoy collecting them, just I'm always trying to streamline my user collection to the most pertinent, and I've found the machete/axe/golok combined with small FB or SAK/LM to be the most useful.
 
Darrell, I won't correct you because I think you're on the right track. Hey, I agree with you about the excellent utility of the simple, proven, and inexpensive machete in all its forms and sizes, though the "normal" 12-inch variety we see advertised virtually everywhere is one of the most useful. A $15 12-inch machete combined with either a good, simple pocketknife (Douk-Douk, Opinel, Sodbuster, etc.) or a $10 4-inch Mora fixed blade is hard to beat in my book. Look around the world at the knives poor people use. Most use some form of machete for virtually everything.
 
I don't have the money to have a Busse, Bark River, Chris Reeve or Strider collection. My big choppers are HI khukuris, not cheap but far less than a Busse. But most of my long blades were considerably cheaper. A pair of Martindales, a pair of bolos from Reflections of Asia and a Tramontina. They all work just fine. The little Tram performs far better than its $6 price tag would lead you to believe. The bolos are an amazing deal for $20.

My EDC is a SAK Camper in my right pocket and an Okapi ring locker in the left. I've carried single knives that cost 5 times what these cost together. But, like the Tram, the SAK offers performance far greater than the price tag would indicate. The Okapi is long enough to use for food prep, light enough to carry and cheap enough to replace. I'm not an MBC student but if cornered I don't doubt it could serve as a weapon in a pinch (I understand it does so in Africa rather frequently).

Would I really be better off with something made of S30V and G-10? Maybe not. Do I resent the INFIdels? Not at all. They buy what pleases them, as do I. If I had $300-$500 to play with I doubt I'd spend it all on a knife. You'd probably find me in a tattoo shop. YMMV

Frank
 
Darrell3644 said:
...For one, if you are lost in the woods in the first place then you are probably too stupid to survive...

Please correct me if you think I am wrong.
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There's plenty of situations where people have found themselves in survival situations not due to their own stupidity. People can end up in those situations because of weather, equipment failures, and the like. Even if you misread your map and wander off into the wild it doesn't mean you're too dumb to save your own ass.

As for the knife, a thick knife does plenty of the things a machete can't, but I don't see any reason not to use an axe or hatchet instead. A machete and a hatchet is a pretty powerful combination.
 
A machete is a useful tool. It is hardly in the same class of tool as a golok, much less SilverFox's khukuris.

The machete should shine with smaller, flexible stuff. I would not want anything else to clear brambles, for example. They are alos economical and relatively light.

Chopping wood? Ask youself why axes have the blades that they do rather than a 1/16" thick blade. I mean they could have such blades. They just don't typically come that way.
 
I've asked the same question, and basically the response that makes sense is that a big super-knife can do almost everything in one package

- standard cutting & skinning
- chop like a hatchet
- serve as a draw-knife
- serve as a hammer
- serve as a shovel
- serve as a machete

So it does fairly well what 6 specialized tools would do better, if you wanted to carry all 6 of them with you. Also, a light machete of cheap steel is thin & less durable than, say, a Busse CGFBM or a Seigle Monster Nessmuk. So it won't stand up to a lot of hard use as long or reliably as those. Plus I wouldn't want to hang my whole weight off it, in the off chance I ever needed to. . . .
 
I don't mean to pick on you fishface5, but I'm just going to use your list.

- standard cutting & skinning Big knives suck at this as bad as a machete does
- chop like a hatchet I've yet to see a big knife that can chop anywhere close to how well a hatchet can. Machetes will do better due to length increasing tip speed. Goloks are better and a big kukri can chop as well as a hatchet, but knives and machetes aren't close.
- serve as a draw-knife Machetes are much better. Longer blade, gives more, and safer gripping. Thin blade "shaves" better.
- serve as a hammer The hatchet has it all over anything but a hammer here. Knife/machete/kukri pommels suck as hammers.
- serve as a shovel Wider blade on machete will serve much better as a shovel.
- serve as a machete LOL, I guess the um, machete, would rule here. Although Goloks and kukris have no problem with this. Even most "large" knives do not have the length to give a good tip speed to slice through the soft, light vegetation.

Not to pick on anyone's choices, as they are personal, but there's a reason a "Nessmuk trio" became popular, and not just by Nessmuk. Variations exist, such as in tropical climates you'll rarely see hatchets, but the machete/golok, etc replaces it. Some places kukris replace both. But universally, people have found that large tools work better for large jobs, and vice-versa.

The advantage machetes have is that they are fairly light, rarely much heavier than a big knife, yet more useful for heavy jobs. Yes, they are usually made of fairly crappy steel, usually minimally, or not heat-treated carbon steel. But they are also very easy to sharpen in the field. True you'll replace them more often, but not many people use them enough for this to ever make a difference. Even if you do have to replace it, they're dirt cheap. How many $9 Ontario GI machetes can you buy with the cost of a Battle Mistress?

Wouldn't an inexpensive machete out chop all these hyped up expensive outdoors knives that go through all those ridiculous tests that supposedly proves that they are the strongest, best choppers, etc. which are made of the so called best "steel" available?. . .I think that many knife enthusiasts have fantasies about the whole survival senario that they will be lost in the woods someday and their expensive amazing knife will save the day.
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Well, it's no different for guns. How many threads do you see on gun boards about which gun is better for combat made by people who will never see combat? Most people who DO see combat will use what they're issued and like it, so it's a moot point. Fact is, people buy things for a purpose. One they'll maybe (probably) never use it for? Maybe, but it's nice to know it can do the job if you want it to.

Take for instance swords. Do I think I'll ever use a sword in a fight? No. Why do i buy "combat ready" swords? Because it's nice to know it could do the job if it had to. Otherwise, I'd just buy much cheaper aluminum swords that look nice on the wall but aren't worth a flying fart.

So really what it comes down to is the "I wanna" factor. Did I want a Battle Mistress because it will work better as a survival knife than my RAT-7? No. But it looks so freakin cool! "I wanna" hard at work.
 
"So really what it comes down to is the "I wanna" factor. Did I want a Battle Mistress because it will work better as a survival knife than my RAT-7? No. But it looks so freakin cool! "I wanna" hard at work.
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I pretty much agree with this statement. The knife you have with you when you need it is the best knife, I have an ontario machete that rides in the back of the runner 24/7/365
and i know that if i ever find myself in a bad situation that it'll be there. I'm not saying that a $15 ontario machete will do anything a $200 wonderknife but dang near and for a lot less money, however the wonderknife carries a certain status. you pays your price and you takes your chances. not many people have the foresight to plan for an emergency and pack their good knife. ahgar
 
I have lots of expensive choppers from all the big names. None is as effective in the bush as a $6.00 Tramontina. That and a SAK should do the trick. I just like big knives.
 
Darrell3644 said:
Wouldn't an inexpensive machete out chop all these hyped up expensive outdoors knives that go through all those ridiculous tests that supposedly proves that they are the strongest, best choppers, etc. which are made of the so called best "steel" available?
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Nothing wrong with machetes. I like my Tramontinas and Martindales. For the $$, you cannot beat them. Period. They are also lightweight and portable, and the longer blades are great for brush cutting.

However, if you're talking about wood chopping/wood removal, they won't outchop a Busse or similarly designed knife. Simply, the thin stock and lighter weight of the machete blade doesn't compare to the performance of a thicker, heavier chopper like a Busse, Fehrman, Ranger, Becker, etc. Regarding batoning and splitting wood, I also think that a thicker ~10" knife outperforms a machete.

Machetes are used world over because they're cheap and readily available. This fact does not mean that they're the best designed knives for all chopping tasks, however.
 
We are all limited by our experience.
It's all compromises.

CHOPPING:
In my experience, no machete chops wood as well as any khukuri I have tried.
In my experience, no machete chops wood as well as my RD9.

FINE WORK:
The deficiencies of a khukuri in fine work are reflected by the small knife - "karda" - they are kitted with in traditional Nepali rigs.
Most large knives have a finer (relative) point than most machetes.
I have seen folks do marvelous cutting with machetes and large knives.

DRAW KNIFE:
The RD9 works fine as a draw knife being 15" long OA. Any long knife should do as well.
The khukuri is a fine draw knife for making poles, etc, due to the bend, but not as good for making flats. The much wider spine is far more comfortable than the spine of a machete when each is used as a draw knife.

HAMMER:
The khukuri back edge is used as a hammer, not the pommel. It is clearly not in the hammer class but it has to greatly exceed the machete in performance. What part of the machete would one hammer with?
I have to say I have never tried hammering with a large knife other than a khukuri (and that very rarely).

SHOVEL:
Most machetes are too flexible to make good shovels. You have to use the second hand to CAREFULLY brace it at mid-span. Not that any knife is a "good" shovel or that shoveling is good for a sharp edge. Given soft enough ground, making a digging stick seems far better, as several members here have wisely advocated.

If it works for you -- it works for you.:thumbup:
Only "best" is "best" for you.

ahgar, the "best" knife may be at home when the survival bell rings -- as may be the "best" coat, the "best" flashlight, and the "best" compass.
 
ahgar said:
"So really what it comes down to is the "I wanna" factor. Did I want a Battle Mistress because it will work better as a survival knife than my RAT-7? No. But it looks so freakin cool! "I wanna" hard at work...
Click to expand...

Survival is a state of mind; and, if a big chopper serves as a talisman to get you there, then it is a survival tool. Just about every knife that is popular today has existed in some fashion with some culture at some point in time. There have always been big heavy survival knives; it is not a new invention; and, countless of indigenous people who did depend on them, used them to both survive and thrive. The machete's principle attributes is that it is cheap, readily available, and efficient to use; but, it is no magic elixir. It does poorly on hardwoods (binds,bends,breaks), is weak for digging or prying, the bounce from the highly flexible blade is potentially dangerous, and the cheap and readily available part ends at the edge of town.

The right kit for survival, and the kit that would have been carried by any well stocked expidition of old, would have included a wide variety of cutting tools; everything from felling axes, to carpenters tools; from butchering kits to surgical tools. Think of all the professions that we have known who actually use knives on a a daily basis - would any of them limit themselves to a single knife. Your survival kit should have a maximum variety of cutting tools.

Now, on a practical level, few of us go on real expeditions anymore; and, even when we do take a trip, help is often just a call away. When we talk about survival we mean spending an unplanned night or two in the woods. There is no need to forage or trailblaze; we will not be clearing land or building heavy long term shelter; nor, should we expect to have to fend off savages nor feroceous wild animals. Our knives are there for comfort. They help us to build a fire to stay warm, to build a blind to shield us from the wind and rain; to fill in at thousands of little tasks when more appropriate tools are simply not available.

So carry whatever works best for you. If a hunting knife, or SAK, is what you are familiar with, then use that rather then a machete. How, well you do will be a reflection on you rather then your knives and tools. Keep your wits, relax, and take it all in; the rest will work itself out soon enough.

n2s
 
I don't know if you've ever spent time in northern forests, but up here, there are few things as useless as a machete. You can't comfortably do small knife tasks with it, because it's cumbersome and huge. Any smaller knife is a million times better, and lighter and easier to carry. And for chopping, you can't chop anything much with a machete over here. The trees are thick and strong, and even a good machete is far too puny to be as effective at chopping them as a heavy knife in the 7 to 10 inch range, a good hatchet or the hukari type blade. A machete could chop saplings and the smallest, weakest tree branches, but what for, unless you're trying to clear your backyard? Quite frankly, I'd rather take absolutely anything else than a machete over here - it would be just useless weight in almost all cases (except for the backyard work, if you have nothing better).

This is not to say you need a super-expensive large chopper knife to survive. Of course not. But if you want to chop stuff up and cut things in northern forests, a machete won't get you anywhere. A good hatchet (at about 20 $) and a good small fixed blade (at about 20 $) will do it all just fine.
 
not2sharp said:
Survival is a state of mind; and, if a big chopper serves as a talisman to get you there, then it is a survival tool. Just about every knife that is popular today has existed in some fashion with some culture at some point in time. There have always been big heavy survival knives; it is not a new invention; and, countless of indigenous people who did depend on them, used them to both survive and thrive. The machete's principle attributes is that it is cheap, readily available, and efficient to use; but, it is no magic elixir. It does poorly on hardwoods (binds,bends,breaks), is weak for digging or prying, the bounce from the highly flexible blade is potentially dangerous, and the cheap and readily available part ends at the edge of town.

The right kit for survival, and the kit that would have been carried by any well stocked expidition of old, would have included a wide variety of cutting tools; everything from felling axes, to carpenters tools; from butchering kits to surgical tools. Think of all the professions that we have known who actually use knives on a a daily basis - would any of them limit themselves to a single knife. Your survival kit should have a maximum variety of cutting tools.

Now, on a practical level, few of us go on real expeditions anymore; and, even when we do take a trip, help is often just a call away. When we talk about survival we mean spending an unplanned night or two in the woods. There is no need to forage or trailblaze; we will not be clearing land or building heavy long term shelter; nor, should we expect to have to fend off savages nor feroceous wild animals. Our knives are there for comfort. They help us to build a fire to stay warm, to build a blind to shield us from the wind and rain; to fill in at thousands of little tasks when more appropriate tools are simply not available.

So carry whatever works best for you. If a hunting knife, or SAK, is what you are familiar with, then use that rather then a machete. How, well you do will be a reflection on you rather then your knives and tools. Keep your wits, relax, and take it all in; the rest will work itself out soon enough.

n2s
Click to expand...

An outstanding post. One of the best I've seen at Bladeforums. :thumbup:
 
Elen said:
This is not to say you need a super-expensive large chopper knife to survive. Of course not. But if you want to chop stuff up and cut things in northern forests, a machete won't get you anywhere. A good hatchet (at about 20 $) and a good small fixed blade (at about 20 $) will do it all just fine.
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A good point. As far as chopping goes, I'd put some of my most efficient Busses at the same level as a normal sized hatchet, the difference being that the hatchet has a much more functional "hammer." If you know you're going to have to chop a fair amount of wood, however, ditch both the big knife and the hatchet, and take yourself an axe.

Thomas Linton got it right. It's a big set of compromises. It's up to you to figure out what works for you.
 
Guyon said:
A good point. As far as chopping goes, I'd put some of my most efficient Busses at the same level as a normal sized hatchet, the difference being that the hatchet has a much more functional "hammer." If you know you're going to have to chop a fair amount of wood, however, ditch both the big knife and the hatchet, and take yourself an axe.

Thomas Linton got it right. It's a big set of compromises. It's up to you to figure out what works for you.
Click to expand...

Agreed! A big, heavy chopper can do well. But for the really serious stuff, felling loads of trees and making heaps of firewood, nothing beats a good saw and a big axe. :)
 
Welcome to the forums. This is a good thread. I'm an avid backpacker and busses are just not practical for me. I've only handled one and it was way to heavy to be backpacking with. I wore it on my hip for a dayhike and it threw my gait off because i had to adjust to the weight so much. For me a small hatchet, RAT3, and a back up folder work great on overnights.
 
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