M'aidez. A question about an old 501 - What alloy is this?

knarfeng

knarfeng

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Howdy,
A few years ago I found a rather well used 501 a ways off a hiking trail. The blade had been reshaped a bit and it had some blade wobble. I took it home and over the years it has occasionally gotten some pocket time. Today was one of those days and for the heck of it, I took it in and measured the blade hardness. I was surprised. 60.4HRC.

I've measured a couple of 420HC blades at 59. None at 60. The spec is only 58. Hardness measurements are always ± 1 because that is as accurate as the test gets. Still, 60.4 is enough above that to make me think maybe I don't know what I got.

So, now the question. What DO I got?

Here is a pic.
there is no date marker. That makes it pre-1986- Yes?
It has the fancy script "BUCK" like my 703 that I got in ~81.

Is it possible that this old 501 has a 440C blade?
(I am certain the 703 was 425M. It measured a fraction over 57HRC)

Any help would be a blessing. I find myself perplexed for sure.

100_3060.jpg
 
The English Script, Maroon Micarta 500 series knives should be mid to late 70s build and 440C.
 
:cool:...hmmm...I'm not sure that's micarta...Seems to have more of a wood grain than any of mine with micarta do...If it is micarta it's definitely 440C...:confused:
 
It is micarta. Worn to the point where I can see some of the fabric pattern, though I don't think I can make it show in a photo.

Thanks, gents!
 
I had wondered if there were not some 440C blades that came out in the 60RC range.
Heat treating is not an exact science. Its more of a learned science with some seat of the pants crap shooting. The testing has more of the former. Still, accuracy of the ball is only +-1 so pick your number. Mr Boss could have been shooting for 58-59 and hit it or it could be said he got more. Thanks for sharing the info.. DM
 
David, I would guess that Mr. Bos had nothing to do with that heat treat. Most of Bucks old 440C was not treated by him. The vast majority I would say.

Congrats on that find. All I can say is "jackpot".

One of my all time favorites, and STR's as well.
 
Leroy Remer has told me Paul Boss was working for Buck doing heat treating at that time.
DM
 
David Martin said:
Leroy Remer has told me Paul Boss was working for Buck doing heat treating at that time.
DM
Click to expand...

I've heard the same. If you look at the official bio, it implies that Paul Bos was at least consulting with the Buck family in the 70's and maybe the 60's. It implies he did heat treating for Al Buck before 1969.

The bio mixes his Buck work with his non-Buck work so the timeline is a bit hard to figure. But it sure looks like Paul Bos worked with Buck in the early years of 440C.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos

The heat treat expert he had sought out and who became Paul's mentor was a wonderful old blacksmith from Kansas City, who ran the heat treat system for Star Heat Treat and Fishing Supplies in San Diego. So, while he was still in high school, he went to work there. His main task was making fish hooks, but his mentor taught Paul all he knew about the proper heat treat process. That was it; Paul was hooked. As he says, "I fell in love with heat treat —and it's still what I love to do."
It didn't take long for Paul to put his new-found skills to work. One of his drag-racing friends was Frank Buck (Chuck Buck's brother, who died years ago), and Frank would bring custom blades to Paul for the needed heat treat. Paul then met Frank's dad, Al, and began doing more for Buck Knives.
In 1969, Paul bought Star Heat Treat and established Certified Metal Craft, and soon they were doing virtually all the heat treat done in San Diego County. By the time he left in 1980 it was the biggest heat treat service in Southern California, doing work for such big names as as Boeing, Lockheed, Grumman and others.
At the same time, he was still working with Buck Knives. He found himself working 18 hours a day, seven days a week, and decided that was too much. So he got out!
​
 
Knarf, Elaborate more on, "So he got out!". Thanks for the info. post. Its good that correct info. is stated. Leroy did substantiate this Biography to me years ago. I think he would say its correct. DM
 
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I quoted a section of the article on the Buck knives web site. The rest is there. The site reference is provided in my above post.

It's fairly plain from the article that, while Mr. Bos did not actually join Buck knives until the late 70's, he had input on their heat treating well before that.

My memory is suspect for accurate data from the mid to late 60's, but I do seem to remember reading articles in the gun mags in those years that said Paul Bos was affiliated with Buck. (My memory plus 5 bucks will get you a trolley ride so don't cite me as a source. But the Buck bio on Paul Bos ought to be pretty believable stuff.)
 
Knarf, After reading the article your ending statement doesn't seem so open ended. My PC had trouble pulling it up at first, hence the tenor of my first post. Buck procured the large LN1 storage tank at their new plant in El Cajon in 1980 for cryogenic treatment of blades. Some other forms of cryogenic treatment was in use prior to that facility. Buck was the first to do this treatment on knife steel. So, to me the 3 dots ARE special and well manufactored, ahead of their time. DM
 
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