Maintaining 1095?

M

manowar669

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Oct 1, 2002
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I like traditional knives, but I haven't been carrying them because they go dull without using them. I imagine the fine edge oxidizes and the micro-serrations lose their edge.
My GEC 33 is really bad. I can sharpen it so it shaves. Close it, leave it on the dresser for a week, open it, and it won't even catch a thumbnail. I read somewhere about keeping it oiled. Should I wipe it with mineral oil? I do cut food, so I read mineral oil is the oil of choice. Is this all I need to do to keep them sharp?
 
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I've seen this concern pop up a couple of times lately, but I've never experienced it.

I keep my carbon knives that won't be used for a while coated in mineral oil. I don't have a problem with oxidation.
 
Oddly, my Opinel 6 carbon that I keep in my lunch tote for work gets used all the time for food, is still sharp, and I just wipe it off with a paper towel. Haven't sharpened it in months. I can put that GEC 33 in my pocket, and it's dull in days, even if I don't use it.
 
Ihave heard it said that the edge is elastic and bends to the sharpening
And that if you sharpen them soon again it takes off the elastic material

This sounds very plausable

Could someone with more knowladge comment
 
neeman said:
Ihave heard it said that the edge is elastic and bends to the sharpening
And that if you sharpen them soon again it takes off the elastic material

This sounds very plausable

Could someone with more knowladge comment
Click to expand...

If the old edge was elastic then the new edge will be elastic also.

I have a couple of Opinel carbon paring knives. I put them up dry (no oil) for the most part. If I don't use them for a week I need to give them a quick strop to clean up the edge. You can see the edge go from shiny to dull over several days. Every couple of months, I'll hone them on a 1000 grit wipe and oil. I have a 61OT that holds its edges for months when oiled. Your newer Opinel might be a modified high carbon steel. The newer 1095 will often have added chrome and vanadium. This will help the steel keep form corroding.
 
I've seen a few posts lately also that mention issues with GEC blades. I can't say that I've had a problem myself so I almost don't even want to bring that up. In fact, I wouldn't, but on my pen blade (I've mentioned this before) the tip was clearly over heated, I presume, from the final sharpening at the factory. I haven't seen signs of edge retention problems because I rarely use the blade.
 
I just can't get 1095 to shave. I can get it to cut paper like nothing, but never shave. I need a real sharpening system, but it's still frustrating.
 
Not discounting the idea that a carbon steel's oxidation, at the edge, will degrade sharpness. I'm sure it happens to some small degree. There was a time when I believed the issue to be a lot bigger than it actually is.

The earlier comment about elasticity of the steel sort of touches on something I noticed a while back. I used to notice blades that (apparently) would go 'dull' just sitting in storage. But in my case, I think much of the issue revolved around not adequately cleaning up fine burrs, wire edges or other weakened (and ductile) steel on blade edges. I'd sharpen a blade, then 'test' it by doing some cutting in paper or whatever, then put it away for a while. At some later point, I'd again pick up the blade and noticed it was 'duller' than before. Fast-forward several years, after I'd gotten a better handle on stropping to clean up the burrs, and virtually all of these issues I'd noticed years before had disappeared. It was then that I came to the conclusion I was probably folding over some fine burrs/wires when 'testing' my edges in cutting, and not noticing it until picking up the blade again some days or weeks later.

With 1095 in particular, I know some varieties are much more ductlle or soft than others, depending on which maker did the heat treat. Also, with 1095, the steel should be able to take an extremely fine edge; one which can often be altered and/or improved simply by stropping on one's jeans. When the edge is fine enough to be affected by something so seemingly gentle, it's not hard to imagine that a simple cutting into paper or other relatively easy material might also alter the edge in a negative way, like folding the fine edge over. The relative thickness of the edge geometry will make it even more noticeable, if the 'sharp' burr folds over and leaves a wide-angled and fairly blunt apex behind it; cutting performance will drop off a cliff.

manowar669 said:
I like traditional knives, but I haven't been carrying them because they go dull without using them. I imagine the fine edge oxidizes and the micro-serrations lose their edge.
My GEC 33 is really bad. I can sharpen it so it shaves. Close it, leave it on the dresser for a week, open it, and it won't even catch a thumbnail. I read somewhere about keeping it oiled. Should I wipe it with mineral oil? I do cut food, so I read mineral oil is the oil of choice. Is this all I need to do to keep them sharp?
Click to expand...

The bolded part above seems to indicate an extreme loss of sharpness (between shaving and later not catching a thumbnail) in a short span of time. To me, that points more to a burr/wire folding over quickly, or a thin edge that's too soft to be supported by the steel's heat-treat, as opposed to oxidation/corrosion causing the edge to degrade. If corrosion were doing this at such a rapid pace, I'd expect to see more obvious evidence of rust/oxidation on the rest of the blade as well.


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
Not discounting the idea that a carbon steel's oxidation, at the edge, will degrade sharpness. I'm sure it happens to some small degree. There was a time when I believed the issue to be a lot bigger than it actually is.

The earlier comment about elasticity of the steel sort of touches on something I noticed a while back. I used to notice blades that (apparently) would go 'dull' just sitting in storage. But in my case, I think much of the issue revolved around not adequately cleaning up fine burrs, wire edges or other weakened (and ductile) steel on blade edges. I'd sharpen a blade, then 'test' it by doing some cutting in paper or whatever, then put it away for a while. At some later point, I'd again pick up the blade and noticed it was 'duller' than before. Fast-forward several years, after I'd gotten a better handle on stropping to clean up the burrs, and virtually all of these issues I'd noticed years before had disappeared. It was then that I came to the conclusion I was probably folding over some fine burrs/wires when 'testing' my edges in cutting, and not noticing it until picking up the blade again some days or weeks later.

With 1095 in particular, I know some varieties are much more ductlle or soft than others, depending on which maker did the heat treat. Also, with 1095, the steel should be able to take an extremely fine edge; one which can often be altered and/or improved simply by stropping on one's jeans. When the edge is fine enough to be affected by something so seemingly gentle, it's not hard to imagine that a simple cutting into paper or other relatively easy material might also alter the edge in a negative way, like folding the fine edge over. The relative thickness of the edge geometry will make it even more noticeable, if the 'sharp' burr folds over and leaves a wide-angled and fairly blunt apex behind it; cutting performance will drop off a cliff.



The bolded part above seems to indicate an extreme loss of sharpness (between shaving and later not catching a thumbnail) in a short span of time. To me, that points more to a burr/wire folding over quickly, or a thin edge that's too soft to be supported by the steel's heat-treat, as opposed to oxidation/corrosion causing the edge to degrade. If corrosion were doing this at such a rapid pace, I'd expect to see more obvious evidence of rust/oxidation on the rest of the blade as well.


David
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I agree.

Op, how acute are you sharpening the edge on your GEC? If it's at, or close to, the factory geometry I'd wonder about the HT.

How certain are you that it's not a wire edge/burr? May try looking at your edge under good light and magnification too. That alone has told me a great deal about my edges.
 
I wonder if the OP's edge mightn't be contacting the face of the spring inside the handle. That will dull it up quick.

In agreement with many of the above observations, most edges don't really dull from sitting, but carbon ones definitely will oxidize along the edge over time. They'll still be sharp, but not like when they were first put away. Keeping them oiled and wiping off diligently after use helps out with this.
 
I have not experienced this problem but the other posters are probably right, either your edge is contacting the back spring or you might have a leftover burr causing the issue. Its kind of like with straight razors, you strop before you shave, not after you shave. The edge is so thin it "grows" so to speak but stropping helps this. A traditional type blade is fairly thin but not like a straight razor, so there might be some oxidation but it should not be enough to dull the edge significantly unless it was left over a long period of time. I suspect there is more at work here than just simple oxidation. Strop your edge after sharpening on plain leather, keep it dry/wiped off after each use and add oil when necessary, doesnt have to be obsessively. I certainly would oil before storing, I do this even with stainless blades. Its just a good practice. Hope you figure it out!
 
I had a knife that was put in a box with some keepsake items from my Grandfather that was in there for more than 20 years. The knife was able to shave hair from my arm when I finally retrieved it and placed it into my collection. All I did was clean it up and buff the patina from the blades, and started to add it to my EDC rotation. My Grandfather kept it sharp with an old Arkansas "whet rock" that I also have. There was little or no degradation of the edge that I could determine. While it was a part of my EDC rotation, I kept it sharp with my paper wheels, and often only had to buff it with the slotted wheel with some compound on it to keep it razor sharp. It was an old Schrade Walden and apparently had an excellent HT applied to it.

I posted all this to say that with a good heat treat, any 1095 steel blade should sharpen up and stay sharp for an extended period of time if it has a good HT from the maker. I have several 1095 knives, and there are differences in their ability to take and hold a good edge. If yours doesn't, I would suspect the HT over any oxidation of the blade edge, barring any obvious rusting of said blade.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Bo T said:
If the old edge was elastic then the new edge will be elastic also.
Click to expand...

Not is there is a step process of sharpening

A newly sharpened edge that has been pressured
Let to rest to relax
The lightly fine sharpened to remove the deformed relaxed edge
And later light stopping will again further refine the elastic edge
 
HeavyHanded said:
I wonder if the OP's edge mightn't be contacting the face of the spring inside the handle. That will dull it up quick.

In agreement with many of the above observations, most edges don't really dull from sitting, but carbon ones definitely will oxidize along the edge over time. They'll still be sharp, but not like when they were first put away. Keeping them oiled and wiping off diligently after use helps out with this.
Click to expand...

^^^this, spot on
 
In all likelihood, if the blade edge is contacting the backspring, the damage will almost always be confined to a very short section (or even a point) of blade edge. Between the blade's curvature, and the profile of the inside face of the backspring (most will look something like a shallow & rounded 'w' in profile), it's unlikely a large section of edge will be flush to the spring. More often than not, the point of contact will be at the 'hump' in the spring at the location of the anchor pin, or sometimes near the tip of the blade, where the blade's belly and the spring/spacer sweep up towards the bolster. The damage from such contact will usually be fairly obvious under inspection with a bright light; it'll appear as a flat-spot, as if the blade edge were smacked against the corner of a hard table, or if inadvertently cutting into a staple in a box. If there is hard contact (blade slamming against it), it'll also leave a visible divot in the spring/spacer.


David
 
I don't think the edge is hitting the backspring, it's dull all over. I have a GEC 73 and 72 that stay sharp. I have a very acute edge on the 72 wharnie.
 
I don't think the edge is hitting the backspring, it's dull all over.
Click to expand...

Manowar,

If you have followed the above testing guidelines, especially as outlined by Obsessed, you should notify the manufacturer; they need to know about this. :thumbup:
 
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