Make this pocket in WI with what I have available?

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Dixieblade57

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Jun 20, 2007
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1,361
Please look at this site and the knife their.

http://www.basspro.com/Ken-Richards...roduct/99856/-1499959?cmCat=CROSSSELL_PRODUCT

I am using only as a refrence to ask my question (nothing else). Pay attention to the area of the knife where the back of the guard is and imagine the brown part behind it being another piece of that brass guard.

I want to put a slight pocket in it too accept the handle. As this is what I am attempting to do!

I am building a bowie that will have a Wrought Iron guard on it that will transittion into a ferule W/pocket that will except a full whitetale antler w/crown on it as a thru tang knife. I am able to make the slot thru the guard portion OK. However I am not sure of the best way to do the ferule W/pocket portion that will transition on to the antler handle itself. Most knives I have seen do not make use of such a ferule.

The antler I will be using is in the neighbor hood of 3/4" in diameter. I have a forge and I have a drill press. I do not have a steel mill. I do not have a bit large enough to drill this pocket. How hard is WI to work, could I concieveabley make a mill style bit do the cutting for the pocket with a drill press.?

Would it be better to form the ferule by forgeing the pocket with a punch and then working the outside to the shape I need?

I guess what I am trying to do is get some suggestion on how might be the best way to approach this idea before I screw up alot of good WI! Anyone got any thoughts on what I am attempting to do with this knife. I had a crude drawing I was going to upload however my scanner crapped out last night!
 
A ferrule can be made by forming a piece of flat material into a circle and welding it together. Then it is shaped and thinned to fit. That is not so easy with , but can be done.

The other way is to shape a solid piece, and cut out the inside with a mill. The antler has a shoulder formed on it to fit the ferrule and then the two are shaped to make a perfect fit. Once assembled the guard-ferrule-antler should make a seamless transition.
 
Anyone else notice the quality problem with the knife linked in the base post?
Quality.jpg
 
OK I realize that I could do it the way you are talking about Stacy. I don't however want a seam to show on the piece, and forged properly you might be able to even make the seam disappear. However what I have in mind of making will require it to made from one solid piece of WI with the pocket/ferule to accept the end of antler.

Like I said I do not have a mill. Is it possible to do this on a drill press with a 5/8" chuck? Since I am not a machinist and don't have a mill I am not even sure if what I am asking about in the following question is the right/proper tool to do such a process with or not.

Could an adjustable boring bar be used with a drill press to create such a pocket in a solid piece of WI?

Do they make one that could be used with a drill press that has a 5/8" chuck?

Is a drill press cable of such an operation?

What does something like the boring bar and carbide insert cost? It may cost prohibitive for basically at this point a one time operation!

I may be thinking of doing this process all the wrong way, that is why I threw it open to suggestion as to how might be the best way to accomplish this! The thought I had on the forge idea was to take a piece of WI and with a punch beat/forge the pocket into the metal and then remove everything around the pocket to the shape I desire. I am a woodworker/carpenter for years before getting into making knives.If I were going to something like this from a solid piece of wood I would use the right size spadebit or even an adjustable spade style bit. Doing this on a piece of WI has me trying to come up with a different thought process.:confused:

Yes I have noticed in the refrenced picture that there is a bad problem with fit up on the refrenced piece, I was hoping that was a photo poop paw so to speak and not a real issue!:eek::rolleyes:
 
I don't understand why you are talking about using a ferrule when you are using a reference knife that does have a ferrule. The knife in picture has a guard with pieces stacked together, epoxied, then shaped as one piece.

If you are asking how to make a ferrule, then TieGoo had a tutorial on that a while back you may be able to find. If you are asking how to put a slot in a guard, then there are several tutorials on that as well that only require a drill press and files. If you are asking how this particular guard is fomed, then my guess is that it is cut out on band saw then ground to shape, stack, glue, etc.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your question.
Jason
 
I use the pic as reference only! Pretend the brown part of the knife in the picture is really part of it's brass guard. NOT a stack behind it. NOW PRETEND THE WHOLE THING IS MADE OF WROUGHT IRON AND YOU HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO.

It was kind of a bad idea to use the pic but try as I might I was unable to find a pic of what I was wanting to do with this piece as I have never seen another knife made exactly like the one I have in mind. I have just got to figure out what I can use to bore approx. a 3/4" dia. hole in a solid piece of wrought iron and then it is just a process of stock removal to get the shape I want for the piece besides the hole/pocket/ferule to accept the antler. Most I have seen like this actually the antler would just but tightly to back side of the this piece, but I want this antler to actually be set into the backside of the guard. Very hard for me to explain exactly what I am talking about! LOL
 
The reference to a mill was the way most do it. .........A drill press and a Dremel tool with some cylinder burrs will do the task,too.

To do the seat on the antler, file a 1/16" to 1/8" shoulder on the end as far back as you want the antler to extend into the ferrule. Trim the inside of the ferrule to as close a fit as possible, and then adjust the antler shoulder until the fit is perfect.
Now, you can file/grind the outside of the WI ferrule to make it match the antler shape. Once they match, trim the ferrule length as needed and shape the end as needed to lay flat against the guard.
Then you can mount the antler/ferrule as one piece, just like it was a plain handle. I often glue them together before assembly on the tang.
 
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why the need for a "pocket" for the antler, alignment pins would serve the same purpose of holding the antler and WI in relation to each other and possibly better. Antler being porous you may not have much material to size down to fit into the WI before you get to the pith.
Chris
 
I am really not sure there is a need for a pocket/ferule. My thought was that if there was ever any shrinkage to to antler then if the antler had been worked down to fit in the ferule, the pocket/ferule would hide that so as to not show a difference between the piece. (kind of like the picture I referenced) LOL

This was one of those things that I was kind of bouncing the idea off of everyone. I even originally asked if anyone had any other ideas on how to approach this!

The more I think about the process of doing this handle the more I think I will just do it like a stacked handle and pin it all together as well as epoxying! The antler is very stable. I guess this is one of those things you over think at times! The cost of doing this for one knife is beginning to mount up, when I price the bits, and I have my doubts I can do it without a mill!I am afraid it would not work on a regular drill press. Maybe that is why I have never seen one done exactly like I had in mind!:eek::D

I would like to thank those who did respond to this thread though!:thumbup:
 
Dixie, the only practical way would be to have it milled. Tell me this. If it were simply a butt joint to the guard, how would you know the difference?? The grip would have to be destroyed, or Xrayed for anyone but you to know. I am not saying to decieve anyone, but the visual result would be the same, and any strength gained by inserting the antler into the pocket would be nil. I think you are looking for an ingenius answer, to a non existant problem.
 
The very reason to use a "pocket" or ferule is to avoid the almost unavoidable gap that will show up later on a butt joint with any antler to metal joint.

I don't care how well you fit it, or what glue you use....in time it will shrink and expose a gap.

If the "foot" of the antler section is seated in a "pocket" of metal, in time the joint may be less seamless, but will not have a gap when ( not if) it shrinks. The beveled fitting of stag at a bolster is partly for the same reason.

Such fitting techniques are some of the things that separated a custom knife from a factory knife.
 
You could drill a hole in your metal then drift the hole bigger and grind the outside thinner.

My 2 cents

Richard
 
Thanks again to all who responded to this thread. After giving this considerable thought I think I am going to chalk this one up to, "one of those better ideas that went nowhere"!

At least it didn't cost me a lot of time and money to come to that conclusion.:D

I was shooting for two things with this idea. The ferule would have helped with shear forces and I think would have made it harder to see if there is any shrinkage or come and go due to expansion and contraction due to the movement of two different materials,(IE antler and WI).

I have decided to fit the back side of the guard or what would have been the ferule to the end of the antler and drill alignment pins that go thru the piece and into the end of the antler. That will help with the shear forces I was worried about as well as maintain alignment. The other issue is the antler and the more I think about it. The antler is very stable and it being sealed should help minimize the expansion and contraction of it against the WI.

So this is how I have chosen to approach this problem. It is however really great to know that you can throw a subject out there for discussion and the members of this forum always give that subject a good discussion. That was my purpose when I asked the question!
 
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