Maker/Collector Responsibilities?

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Oct 28, 2006
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In consideration of knifemakers retiring and the negative effect it can have on collector's knife values that supported them, I was wondering if the maker should have a responsibility to tell his supporting collectors of his intentions to retire beforehand. Or to inform collectors considering buying his knives that he may not be making knives much longer?

And then on the other hand, if a long time collector of a particular maker is planning to liquidate his entire collection of say 30-50 of that maker's knives in the $1500-$5000 price range does the collector have a responsibility to the maker to do it gradually rather than dumping all the knives on the market at same time thus destroying the maker's market?

Or is it just "everyone for himself" in these types of scenarios?
 
I'd say it was common courtesy of the knifemaker to let all supporting and long-time collectors of their's know. Most long time collector of the knifemaker are usually good acquaintances of them already.
As far as the collector goes...... IF it were me, I'd contact the maker first just to talk about it, and see what his thoughts were out of common courtesy. I don't think letting 30-50 pieces go would ruin the market for them. BUT I wouldn't feel obligated to do so, unless the maker were a very good friend of mine, and if the maker made me a few special pieces and/or gave me a few good deals because I was a good customer.
 
Kevin,

Isn't the collector mantra: I buy what I like and that is all I care about????

If that is the case...it's every man and or woman for themselves. :D

Sorry, sometimes the smart ass just slips out.

Excellent "long term collector and maker" Question :thumbup: :):D

I'm curious to see the answers you receive.

WWG
 
I'd say it was common courtesy of the knifemaker to let all supporting and long-time collectors of their's know. Most long time collector of the knifemaker are usually good acquaintances of them already.
As far as the collector goes...... IF it were me, I'd contact the maker first just to talk about it, and see what his thoughts were out of common courtesy. I don't think letting 30-50 pieces go would ruin the market for them. BUT I wouldn't feel obligated to do so, unless the maker were a very good friend of mine, and if the maker made me a few special pieces and/or gave me a few good deals because I was a good customer.

IMO, an established full time maker that earns a living on making 50-60 pieces per year could be devastated for a year or more by that many pieces being liquidated at once.


Kevin,

Isn't the collector mantra: I buy what I like and that is all I care about????

If that is the case...it's every man and or woman for themselves. :D

Sorry, sometimes the smart ass just slips out.

Excellent "long term collector and maker" Question :thumbup: :):D

I'm curious to see the answers you receive.

WWG

Yep WWG, it's all a part of "we are all in this together" thing. ;):)
 
I don't think there is any obligation on the part of the maker or collector, though in both cases I think it is a courtesy that would be a good thing to do.
 
I think that letting the maker know would be the right and fair thing to do. I consider a couple of makers that I buy knives from friends and I wouldn't hurt a friend intentionally.
 
Good communication between maker and collector is very important to all involved.

So often, the right answer comes down to this - communication. If a collector has invested 30-50 pieces worth of $1,500 to $5,000 knives in the work of a given maker, it is hard to imagine that there wouldn't be pretty good communication between the two. Significant decisions of this type would likely be discussed.

I think if we are equating "responsibility" with "obligation", then that is putting it too high. Of course it would not be good for a collector to suddenly flood the secondary market with a huge quantity of the work of one maker - definitely not good for the maker or likely for other collectors who own a number of examples of that maker's work. But I wouldn't put it as high as that collector having an obligation not to do so. They are his knives, bought with his cash.

Roger
 
Does the collector have a responsibility to the maker to do it gradually rather than dumping all the knives on the market at same time thus destroying the maker's market?

No, but the collector/investor would also be destroying the market for his collection. Emergencies happen in life, but having to liquidate tangible assets for instant cash is a classic recipe for disaster. Anyone who has that much money tied up in steel, from a single maker no less, and doesn't have liquid assets that FAR exceed the value of his collection is nuts, imho.

P
 
I'd say it boils down to the deliberate practice of
trust and respect, by all concerned.

Those qualities, and the relationships built on them,
are what makes this art/business great.
 
I don't think there is any obligation on the part of the maker or collector, though in both cases I think it is a courtesy that would be a good thing to do.

No, but the collector/investor would also be destroying the market for his collection. Emergencies happen in life, but having to liquidate tangible assets for instant cash is a classic recipe for disaster. Anyone who has that much money tied up in steel, from a single maker no less, and doesn't have liquid assets that FAR exceed the value of his collection is nuts, imho.

P

I agree with Keith and Peter.
 
So often, the right answer comes down to this - communication. If a collector has invested 30-50 pieces worth of $1,500 to $5,000 knives in the work of a given maker, it is hard to imagine that there wouldn't be pretty good communication between the two. Significant decisions of this type would likely be discussed.

I think if we are equating "responsibility" with "obligation", then that is putting it too high. Of course it would not be good for a collector to suddenly flood the secondary market with a huge quantity of the work of one maker - definitely not good for the maker or likely for other collectors who own a number of examples of that maker's work. But I wouldn't put it as high as that collector having an obligation not to do so. They are his knives, bought with his cash.
Roger

I agree Roger, as communication is key in solving many issues and problems between maker and collector.
In addition, I believe the collector does not have an obligation, however more a responsibility as one would assume that the collector and maker have built a friendship and/or mutual respect for each other over the long term relationship in the collector acquiring that many knives.


No, but the collector/investor would also be destroying the market for his collection. Emergencies happen in life, but having to liquidate tangible assets for instant cash is a classic recipe for disaster. Anyone who has that much money tied up in steel, from a single maker no less, and doesn't have liquid assets that FAR exceed the value of his collection is nuts, imho.

P

I certainly agree on both points Peter. Especially one's liquid assets should always exceed the value of their "collectible-investment assets".

I don't think its all that rare that established makers have supporting collectors that hold large quantities of their knives.
Makers such as Fisk, Loveless, SR Johnson, Dean, Hancock and many others have multiple collectors who own dozens of their knives.
Yes, all established makers IMO with long term customers face confronting this problem someday if they have not already.

In addition, I think most equate liquidation with financial emergencies or hard times, however at times wealthy collectors who get tired of or lose interest in whatever their collectible will turn them over to an auction house, dealer or just dump on the market to get out with the lease effort or aggravation possible. Even if it means they sell them for under market value. Heck, very often less than wealthy collectors sell their knives for less than market value.
This is evident form the GREAT DEALS we see showing up on a dealer site from time to time.

The savvy collector will be finished liquidating before anyone knows he is doing it. This is done by selling over time through multiple channels, however obviously does take more time.
 
I'd say it boils down to the deliberate practice of
trust and respect, by all concerned.

Those qualities, and the relationships built on them,
are what makes this art/business great.

What Russ said sums it up for me. The custom knife industry wouldn't be where it is today if it were mainly "everyone for himself".

- Joe
 
What Russ said sums it up for me. The custom knife industry wouldn't be where it is today if it were mainly "everyone for himself".

- Joe
I agree Joe, Russ.

I believe if I were ever to liquidate a large quantity of a single maker's knives I would discuss it with him/her first and devise a plan that would best benefit us both.

Perhaps, offer the knives for sale over a agreed upon time period as to not hurt the maker and the maker could possibly help find buyers from his customer pool at which I could get fair and reasonable prices.

In other words, try to come to an equatable solution where collector, maker and other collectors of the maker's knives don't all get burnt.
 
I agree Kevin, good communication between the maker and the collector about a potential liquidation is more than just common courtesy, it can benefit both. The maker can help to control the influx of his work and in return can find a better buyer base from his current customers. I know of quite a few makers whose work may sit for a few days in the sale forums, but when it's on their own site, it's gone within minutes.
Nick
 
I agree Kevin, good communication between the maker and the collector about a potential liquidation is more than just common courtesy, it can benefit both. The maker can help to control the influx of his work and in return can find a better buyer base from his current customers. I know of quite a few makers whose work may sit for a few days in the sale forums, but when it's on their own site, it's gone within minutes.Nick

You are so right Nick.
It's all about putting the knife in front of the collector who is interested in that specific maker or that specific type or style of knife.

Many collectors don't realize that many times by consigning their knife to a dealer they will actually net more money even after paying consignment fees than selling outright on a forum as certain dealers have a large following for particular maker's knives (especially from overseas markets) who are willing to pay more for them.
 
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