Makin' holes.

O

Omega Leather Works

Joined
Jun 13, 2007
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I've been using my drill press on the last 20-25 sheaths and I'm thinking there might be a better way. I've had to scrap parts because the needle wandered (think I've got that fixed now) and it can be stressful punching a hole in a bunch of hours of work.

So the options I've seen are-

Groover, pricking iron, awl.

Groover, stitching chisel, mallet.

Drill press with needle or bit.

Is there anything I'm missing? I like the round holes I get with the press because the stitching is easy to make look uniform. I'm not opposed to learning to sew like Nigel Armitage with a diamond shaped hole. I'd love to be able to justify a machine but my volume is nowhere near what it needs to be to lay out $1500+.
 
I'm not a leather artist but could you hand punch starter holes then use the drill press after. It would prevent the wandering bit.
 
I use an overstitch wheel to mark the hole spacing. It actually does a decent job of putting a divot in the leather to act as a starter for the chucked needle. I also shortened the needle in order to combat any wandering and it tracks pretty true. I think the main reason for the small amount of inaccuracy is due to the leather being pushed into the hole in the table which is approximately 2" in diameter. I've got most of that worked out by swinging the table over to get the needle right on the edge of the hole, then I have about 16ozs of leather between the hole and whatever I'm drilling. That's quelled much of the problem, but then you have times where you're pressing through a piece that has a belt loop stitched on the back which makes the work not perfectly flat. Sometimes I have to compensate for a piece that isn't level. I've gotten pretty good over time, but pretty good isn't what I'm after. ;)

Thanks for asking though because it's given me a sec to think about, and writing it down might help someone else understand better about what's happening.
 
Go into the kitchen drawer and borrow a fork, I cut the handle short and fitted it into a file handle, flattened the fork then filed the tips to a point.
DO NOT TELL your wife I told you to do this .

Richard
 
Strig, take a scrap of 1x4 and use it as a table on top of your drill press table. This allows you to drill through and not have the sag from the hole. I like to leave mine loose so I can hang the belt loop off the side of the board and move the board to position to drill. I have also seen a lot of guys take it a step farther and make a drilling jig by cutting a slot in the middle of the board for the belt loop to rest and keep the rest of the sheath flat.
I know guys that use drill bits have an issue with the bit pulling wood into the hole but I use a yarn needle that I ground the head off of. The needle acts more like an awl and goes through real easily but doesn't pull any wood back into the hole.

Maybe this gives you some ideas to help.
Good luck,
Chris
 
I do the same as Salolan, only I'm using scrap 2x4 cut about a foot long. I still use drill bits, I try to get the best quality I can, cheap always disappoints.

Try the wood backer at least once, its worth the effort.

oh, and believe me, a machine can cause as many issues as it fixes. I still hand stitch more sheaths than I do on the machine.
 
I mark the path with the overstitch wheel. Then chuck up a harness needle in the drill press. Might have to re-chuck it a few times to make sure it is spinning perfectly straight. I use a loose piece of 3/4" X 12" X 12" pine board as a backer to drill into through the leather. If I have a belt loop on the back I build a carrier out of pine that supports the back of the sheath but is relieved in the belt loop area. This way the sheath sits flat and I still have pine to drill into. I have been trying larger diameter needles lately to cut down on excessive re-opening of holes when I do the stitching. I might try a drill bit soon to see if that helps. But harness needles make a nice holes that don't wander(at least for me) and they don't remove any material if that's important to you.
 
Great ideas guys. So simple, why didn't I think of it? I like to think that I'd have come to these solutions on my own. Eventually. :D I'm really thankful to have you guys for the help. I think it's imperative to share information.

iMarc, I tried a few needles trying to find the best one for me. The size, of course, is directly related to the size of needle and thread you use. I use 1 and .8mm Tiger/Ritza and two 00 John James harness needles to sew. For the press, if you have a walmart, go to the craft area where they sell all of the Dritz products and pick up a 5 pack of assorted "doll making" needles. They are perfect. I mainly use the largest one, but sometimes use the next smaller. The sizes aren't labeled unfortunately, but they really are the best I've found. They get pretty hot as you go, but I haven't had one break. I've bought a few packs now just in case, but I'm still using the first one. You'll want to clip them so that only about an inch or two stick out of the chuck, they will flex a little otherwise. The large needle will make a hole that'll need reamed if you leave it overnight, the next smaller one, you'll need to sew right away and will need the pliers for. Depends on what you like.

It's funny, I'm sure we all have our favorite tools, my cheap decades old HF press and doll needle are on the short list. I was looking at the presses at HF the other day because mine is starting to make noise, but the difference in quality is obvious. Even the old Chinese tools (some of them) were made better back in the day. The thing has made many many holes in wood, micarta annealed high carbon steel (even 1/4" 1095) and now leather.
 
This was done with the largest needle.

4IIKaDS.jpg


Sewn.

5KqTrwH.jpg
 
A tight hole helps hold a stitch, and a diamond shape hole gives he room you need and doesn't weaken the leather so much. Holes close up with just a little time, that's why the old timers used an awl, as they sewed. I can get good results on the front using an awl by hand, as I sew, the back, well… you can tell its hand done. Nothin bets good hand stitching, just wish mine was good!
 
I used a 3/4" of ply wood and drilled the same ID'd hole as the needle I use on my drill press. I then put 4 ounce leather over that and punched one hole in it. I used screws to attach it to the drill press plate.

I find this works pretty well.

TF
 
Jason, are you still pressing? Did you buy a machine? I like the idea of one, but as has been pointed out, they seem to have their own set of issues. I think wildmanh uses a machine, at least some of the time. Can't remember if Skyler uses a machine or hand stitches. If he doesn't, it's not for a lack of equipment! :)
 
I dont think I've ever been so mad as I have been frustrated by a machine. :p

If you do go looking please heed this: NEVER look at or buy a machine with a clutch drive, its either full on or not moving at all, there is no middle ground. Stopping at a certain point becomes a crap shoot, and going way past where you want becomes a hair pulling reality. The wear and tear on such a machine is also an issue, mine is nearly worn out and requires an overhaul to make it stay in adjustment. after spending all I had on it and losing money trying to get it to work for me, I have nothing to fix it with. I am a sucker in a worst case scenario so dont go by my experience (nightmare). I sold my Tippmann to get this thing. Serious regret. Sandy told me not to, I will never ignore his advice again. Sorry Sandy my friend.
 
Cody Hofsommer said:
A tight hole helps hold a stitch, and a diamond shape hole gives he room you need and doesn't weaken the leather so much. Holes close up with just a little time, that's why the old timers used an awl, as they sewed. I can get good results on the front using an awl by hand, as I sew, the back, well… you can tell its hand done. Nothin bets good hand stitching, just wish mine was good!
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding half hazard... I think a lot of the strength in a sheaths fastening comes from the glue. Seriously, I view a double row of stitching as purely asethetic from a viewpoint of strength. I've tested two cements, one was Barge, the other (the one that I use now) is Weldwood. Both were comparable and held even as the fibers of the leather tore apart. I'm not ready to say that stitching is unnecessary, I haven't seen what happens to cement long term. I believe my stitching will hold years from now, but I'm not overly concerned with the round versus diamond holes, at least not at the welt. The loop (which in my view is the real high traffic area) is another thing.

I'd love to hear the opinion of some of the guys that have been doing this for years though.

Guys?
 
leatherman said:
I dont think I've ever been so mad as I have been frustrated by a machine. :p

If you do go looking please heed this: NEVER look at or buy a machine with a clutch drive, its either full on or not moving at all, there is no middle ground. Stopping at a certain point becomes a crap shoot, and going way past where you want becomes a hair pulling reality. The wear and tear on such a machine is also an issue, mine is nearly worn out and requires an overhaul to make it stay in adjustment. after spending all I had on it and losing money trying to get it to work for me, I have nothing to fix it with. I am a sucker in a worst case scenario so dont go by my experience (nightmare). I sold my Tippmann to get this thing. Serious regret. Sandy told me not to, I will never ignore his advice again. Sorry Sandy my friend.
Click to expand...

Yikes. What machine did you buy exactly? I figure when (big "if" actually) the time comes I'll try to avoid any heartache and just go with a juki clone, from all accounts the best (in service) being a Cobra from the leather machine company. I believe they are in Cali too. A big nightmare for me would be putting a ton of time in on a stack of sheaths and having problems over and over. I think I'd get the walking foot/digital servo motor/eps (don't really know what all this means exactly! :p ) stuff that everyone talks about, or keep doing it by hand. Just too nervous to make a high dollar mistake. Plus I've ground enough steel on a 1x30 sander to know that I really wanted a KMG (or clone) grinder.

I guess the big question is when do you know you need it? Probably one of those things where you'll know when you know. All I do know is that I don't need it yet. For now a trip to the hardware store for a chunk of wood (for my press table) sounds right. :)
 
I bought a small cutting board at a yard sale, then mounted it to my drill table with countersunk screws in the board and wing nuts under the table so it can be adjusted or cleaned easily.

I then drilled a small hole in the center, lightly counter sunk the hole and use a piece of cereal box or other thin cardboard to make it easier to move the leather around as I'm drilling the pre marked holes. I've had much fewer problems with wandering holes with this set up.

I've also built up disposable jigs from cardboard, wood scraps or whatever I have handy to deal with the belt loop problem. It's easier than building a permanent rig because I experiment a lot with things I make for myself. Sometimes, things get weird.
 
Strigamort said:
Yikes. What machine did you buy exactly? I figure when (big "if" actually) the time comes I'll try to avoid any heartache and just go with a juki clone, from all accounts the best (in service) being a Cobra from the leather machine company. I believe they are in Cali too. A big nightmare for me would be putting a ton of time in on a stack of sheaths and having problems over and over. I think I'd get the walking foot/digital servo motor/eps (don't really know what all this means exactly! :p ) stuff that everyone talks about, or keep doing it by hand. Just too nervous to make a high dollar mistake. Plus I've ground enough steel on a 1x30 sander to know that I really wanted a KMG (or clone) grinder.

I guess the big question is when do you know you need it? Probably one of those things where you'll know when you know. All I do know is that I don't need it yet. For now a trip to the hardware store for a chunk of wood (for my press table) sounds right. :)
Click to expand...

The brand of the machine isn't the point, the drive mechanism is. The digital machines are heads above better, more reliable, and allow you to go as slow as you need. The old clutch type drive is just not worth it. One thing I will make perfectly clear when I sell this thing, I dont want anyone else going into the purchase blind and getting a bat to the face. I cant describe how proud I was to be able to get a good machine in the house for the wife back then. Now I cant stand to look at it.

I will be teaching art in the fall, thankfully I can start reigning the sheath making back a little and go back to providing a superior hand stitched product, no more production offered in the future, and that suits me just fine. :) It takes more time, a lot more, but the end piece is so much better to me.
 
Have you seen that ABS Master Smith youtube video where the sheath maker sews an inlay by turning the flywheel on an old Singer by hand?

Only reason I ask is because my mother in law happens to have a couple of really old (working, although I don't know which model) Singers from back when the family had a couple of drapery businesses. Would you even look at them if you were me, or just avoid them altogether?
 
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