Making a knife from a file - 1095 steel?

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Jul 25, 2015
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Hello all!

I am 17 (so pretty new to all this steel talk) I am making a knife out of a old Nickelson file I've heard there made of 1095 carbon steel. I'm wondering do I need to re harden and temper this steel? Would grinding on this steel alter the hardness of it?

I plan to heat the blade up till a good red or orange to get that black forged look of the steel how much would this alter the steels strength and would I have to re-harden/temper after?

Any help I would be very great-full for
 
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Hello all!

I am 17 (so pretty new to all this steel talk) I am making a knife out of a old Nickelson file I've heard there made of 1095 carbon steel. I'm wondering do I need to re harden and temper this steel? Would grinding on this steel alter the hardness of it?

I plan to heat the blade up till a good red or orange to get that black forged look of the steel how much would this alter the steels strength and would I have to re-harden/temper after?

Any help I would be very great-full for
annealing will make it softer so grinding will be a bit easier,when you've profiled the blade to your liking you could then heat it to non magnetic to harden followed by a two temper cycle at around 350℉ for an hour or so for each session cooling the blade out of the oven inbetween

Use oil to quench at about 130℉ preheated
 
If 350 degrees is giving you a satisfactory temper, you've got LOTS of retained austenite in your blades. Might wish to reassess your heat treatment.

Heat to 1475 and soak for a few minutes.
Quench in a fast oil quenchant (some guys use brine, but I got sick of blades cracking on me and switched entirely to Park's Heatbath #50)
Temper two times for one hour each time. 450 degrees each time equates to RC61-62, with the 1095 I got from Aldo.

This process has been covered extensively in the ShopTalk/Knifemaker section of BladeForums -might want to check that area out for lots of good tips!!
 
I'm not asking how to harden it (I know the title kinda says so- sorry) but would doing this alter the strength of the blade? Or will it maintain the hardness of the file?
 
If you heat it over the temper temp then you will lower the hardness. You can grind it as is and not have to worry about heat treating or tempering as long as you don't over heat it. If you can't hold it without gloves, it's too hot. If you do what you're talking about you will ruin the temper. You could anneal it, grind/file your bevels, heat to 1475 and quench, then temper and leave the black on the flats if you want that look.
 
Zyox-
You obviously know nothing about heat treating steel.
Yes, what you want to do will alter the edge-holding ability of the steel. It will soften it.
 
Zyox-
You obviously know nothing about heat treating steel.
Yes, what you want to do will alter the edge-holding ability of the steel. It will soften it.

As I stated I'm 17 and just starting to learning the basics of it so yes I know nothing about it.

Matt R- thank you very much for a straight forward answer and the black on silver look is what I'm going for (I may post pictures about it at a later date when I finish it)

Edit- almost forgot when I heat it to a orange can I just quench it in a bucket of oil or water and give it some of its hardness back? Or will this not work
 
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You have many questions I understand. The answers will lead to more questions... It is easier to read the stickies at the top of the shop talk page. All the info you want is in there.
 
Zyox,
Welcome to Bladeforums. I changed your title to make the thread more on topic of what you want to know.


What you want to do will leave the blade soft and useless as a knife. It will remove all of the hardness. Just getting it orange and sticking it in a bucket of oil would probably not be good to try and harden it again. Water would break the blade in tow or tree pieces. The stickys has lots of heat treatment info which should explain some of what you need to know.
BTW, orange is a color of hot steel far above what you harden at. The colors are sort of arbitrary, and everyone sees them different, but there are charts of "steel colors" that tell approximately how hot it is, These are OK for forging, but bad for doing HT.

The stickys has a section on Making a knife from a file, which has most all the info you need for your project. It also has a section called "How to Instructions for Making a Knife". That will likely help you a lot. Read all the stickys to get a basic idea of what is involved in making knives. The ones on metallurgy and HT are really important to know.

The basics answers to your question are:
To make grinding and shaping the file easier, you need to make it less hard. There are two ways to do that.
One is to work the file in the hardened state,.... but slightly less hard than it is now, because a file is too brittle to make a good knife blade. You temper the file to remove the excess brittleness. (see below on tempering).
The second, and best method is to anneal the file. This is done by heating the file up to a dull red color and allowing it to cool slowly several times. This changes the file to a softer structure. You can now file, grind, sand, and drill holes easily in the softened file. Once the shaping is done, you re-harden the file ( see below on hardening).

Steel changes its atomic arrangement ( called its "structure") around 1420F. At the same point it stops becoming magnetic. Using a magnet will tell you when your hot steel is around 1420F. Get a welding magnet or some other strong magnet and place it next to where you are heating the blade. Touching the blade to the magnet will tell you if it is below 1420F. When it crosses that point it will suddenly stop sticking to the magnet. You heat it just a shade of red brighter to 1475-1500F and then quench it in warm oil. Canola oil is the preferred simple oil. There are special commercial oils that bladesmiths use, but a gallon of Canola oil from the grocery store works quite well. Don't used old motor oil, it is a poor quenchant and has bad fumes. When you quench the knife, plunge it straight in the tank of oil ( use a steel pail or tank...not plastic!) and keep completely under the surface for 30-60 seconds. If you pull it out too soon, it may ignite the oil as well as affect the HT.

Once the blade is hardened, the structure is still not right. It will be very brittle, and can snap in two easily. It needs to be tempered. Your kitchen oven works fine for tempering. Pre-heat the oven to 400F and wash the blade off well to remove all the oil from the quench. Set on the shelf/rack in the middle of the oven. Tempering converts the structure to a much tougher state. You temper most all knife blades around 400F. Do it for one hour, cool off in water ( stick it under the running tap), and return to the oven to temper again for a second hour. After this, it will be ready to finish the sanding and make the knife.

This is the Bladeforums custom search engine. It will help you hind all kinds of information. A search for "making a knife from a file", "how to harden a blade" or for "HT on 1095" will give you lots of things to read.
https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=012217165931761871935:iqyc7cbzhci

Fill out your profile. Knowing where you live helps us,..... and some maker near you may offer to help with your project.
 
Stacy E- thanks for the info I'm in canada BC (I have lots of profiles on the internet I don't have internet so editing them all is difficult ) I'm not looking for a blade that's gonna take down superman. I'm not going to be beating on it. It's more a "say you did it thing" with something half nice to look at after. I would also like it to keep a fairly good edge

As for my father and myself's capability we are very capable we just lack most knowledge to do with hardening/tempering. I'm trying to become an apprentice machinist myself and I really enjoy working, machining and learning about steel

I will talk to the blacksmith down the street maybe he can harden/temper steel....

I'll definitely do ALOT more reading on the matter.... Would anyone like to see pictures sometime? Just curious
 
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