Making a socket into my knife handle

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wade

Joined
Sep 22, 2005
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I want to make a socket, for bow and drill, into my knife handle. My knife is a RAT 7 and it has micarta handles. Is this a bad idea? I was thinking of doing something like drilling a 3/4in shallow hole and coating it with something that can take the heat and friction. Might drill all the way through it and let it rub on the tang of the handle. Any ideas?
 
wade said:
I want to make a socket, for bow and drill, into my knife handle. My knife is a RAT 7 and it has micarta handles. Is this a bad idea? I was thinking of doing something like drilling a 3/4in shallow hole and coating it with something that can take the heat and friction. Might drill all the way through it and let it rub on the tang of the handle. Any ideas?
Click to expand...


When I ordered my Fehrman Peace Maker I requested that the fire bow bearing not be cut into the handle. I did this for 2 reasons. One is that I feel that if I have to resort to a fire bow to start a fire I am in more trouble then a fire will fix. The other reason is that you will be putting a lot of pressure on the handle of a sharp object. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
 
What if you leave it in the case when using it so you dont get cut? I just thought it would be nice because the socket seems to be, for me, the hardest thing to make.
 
That would depend on the type of sheath and where you put the bearing. The sheath for my Peace Maker is a pouch type and covers most of the handle.

I attached a picture from Fehrman.
 
Hey Wade;

IIRC, 2 contemporary survival authorities, the late Chris Janowsky, and Jeff Randall both designed knives with that feature in the knife. Janowsky's (I think was called the Ranger) knife had no scales, and I can't remember how Jeff Randall accomplished it.

As far as:
One is that I feel that if I have to resort to a fire bow to start a fire I am in more trouble then a fire will fix. The other reason is that you will be putting a lot of pressure on the handle of a sharp object. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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To each their own, but for me, a friction created fire might just be what it takes to get you out of trouble. Also, if you hold the knife, say in your left hand, with the edge facing away from you, and the blade pointing to the left, you should not have any problem.

I read somewhere, it might have even been in bladeforums about a guy who made the divot in the scale of his Swiss Army knife. I don't know how well it worked though.

If it was my knife, and the divot would not negatively affect the knife (I don't know if it would adversely affect the micarta), I would go for it. As it is, I've been working on a design for a belt buckle that will double as a top bearing. Nothing yet. The other thing, of course, is that if there's wood for the bow, drill, and hearth, there would also be enough wood for the top bearing.

Anyway, if you do it, let us know how it works out.

Doc
 
Wade:

After 3 tries I was able to post a picture. Here's how Fehrman does it.
 
UffDa said:
Wade:

After 3 tries I was able to post a picture. Here's how Fehrman does it.
Click to expand...

Nice looking knife. Expensive?

For me, the divot is on the wrong side of the knife. To use it, the edge would be facing my shin. It would work if I was left handed, though. I think I would also prefer the divot to be in a more central position on the handle.

Doc
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Nice looking knife. Expensive?

For me, the divot is on the wrong side of the knife. To use it, the edge would be facing my shin. It would work if I was left handed, though. I think I would also prefer the divot to be in a more central position on the handle.

Doc
Click to expand...


Expensive is relative. :) Fehrman will put the divot on the other side if you wish or non at all as I ordered it. The grip feels very good in my hand and they round off all the edges. (Except the cutting edge, of course)


http://www.fehrmanknives.com/
 
As it is done and is accepted by people I respect here it must be relatively safe . I just find that people in survival situations are rarely at their best . They are often cold , hungry , tired and maybe even short tempered .

If an accident were to happen it would not help things . I always try to use a knife for its intended purpose when possible . Especially if I am cold and tired . This does not look like an intended purpose .

The other side of this is that at least you would have a base for a fire drill . If you are good enough to be able to use it in a survival situation go for it .
 
I'm thinking Micarta may not have the lubricating properties you'd like to see, given you are creating your socket in the comfort of civilization.
You are very correct that the socket can be the "bugger" in the wilderness.
Micarta is like an abrasive. Much better than a rock or bone, of course, but how about other materials?

Have you thought about using something like a UMHW insert?
UHMW has lubricative properties and is very dense and tough.
You would get the best of both worlds, a low friction coefficient, while able to hold up to the heat and stress placed on it.
the low friction component would be a key advantage, as you could press down harder onto the drill, without creating all the extra friction you would experience with other materials.
Theoretically you would be able to speed up the firemaking process?

How about hollow the Micarta handle and place a small Ferocium rod under it?
That is, if it's screwed on, and you have a tool to unscrew it.
 
I don't see how just having the divot there could hurt things, but to me, if you're gonna build in fire making capabilities into the knife's handle, just mill a slot under the handle scale so you can slide a sparking rod in. (or whatever they're called- fire steel, ferro something or other)
 
It works fine. So do sockets made in old wooden butcher knife handles- drill right to the steel tang. Injection molded plastic handles, like on the plastic handled Moras, work very well. I have done this many times.
 
Horse said:
It works fine. So do sockets made in old wooden butcher knife handles- drill right to the steel tang. Injection molded plastic handles, like on the plastic handled Moras, work very well. I have done this many times.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.Did you drill the plastic handled Moras to the steel tang, too?

Doc
 
Yes I did- I do not know if I had to though- that HDPE type handle material has good lubricosity.
 
DOC-CANADA said:
...... and I can't remember how Jeff Randall accomplished it.
Doc
Click to expand...

One could use the divot in Jeff Randall's LaserStrike with the sheath on the knife. Use of the LaserStrike divot was demonstrated or perhaps I should say illustrated, in an otherwise unecessarily contentious thread, I believe over in the Outdoor Survival Forum at Knifeforums, in the Nice! thread. I don't recall if the demonstrators had the sheath on or not. If holding the Micarta knife handle in the left hand, the edge would be facing away from you. If left in the sheath the divot is about a 1/4" above the top of the Kydex belt loop. This would make it less comfortable to hold.

Here is a picture of the divot.

laserstrikestonebridgecandlela.jpg


I have been meaning to try the LaserStrike divot, but have never found the time. I have used the FireSteel attached in the sheath loop. Now I would probably try this PTFE* fire drill bearing first. (* PolyTetraFluoroEthylene or as brand named by DuPont, Teflon)

ptfefiredrillbearingblock4ql.jpg


A very modern tool, "found naturally occuring" at the factory, to use with a primitive fire making technique. I love the incongruity! :D
 
Hey Donald,

Nice looking knife.

With the divot on the correct side for the person using it, there should be no need to have the knife sheathed, but I guess, the more safe, the better.

I'm curious about the wear on the micarta. I guess I'll have to go to knifeforums and check it out.

Your nylon bearing looks interesting. Is it installed in something, or do you try and hold it by itself? If so, looks like it would be difficult due to its apparent size.

Doc
 
Hey Donald,

Thanks for the link. Just got back. Wow, that was quite the thread. It brought back memories of why I left another forum.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. First and foremost I am a primitive skills junkie and as such have spent a lot of time with friction fire making. In my books, the #1 necessary outdoor survival skill. Having said that, I think I'd be a little hesitant about putting a divot in the scales of an expensive (yes, I know, expensive is relative) knife.

I have no doubt it works well for fire making, but would be concerned about possible damage to the scales. I am going to try one in one of my Moras, though.

Doc
 
Doc, glad you like the knife and you are welcome for the link. Please note that the fire drill bearing I depict is NOT Nylon, but PTFE more commonly known by it's DuPont brand name, Teflon. PTFE is slicker and more heat resistant. Bill Hay tried Delrin, and it melted from use. His PTFE one worked fine. Since I seal my nylon with a match or hot cutter I suspect a strictly nylon bearing would melt too. Lubricating the bearing would help in the case of less slick or less heat resistant materials. I saw candle wax sometimes used in the divot in Micarta. Real Micarta or G-10 are rather tough materials.

I don't see any damage to the divot in Bill Hay's LaserStrike. I would not worry about pre-done divot in an "expensive" knife handle. If you have used the knife at all the dollar value to someone else may have gone down, but the value to the owner has gone up. If it is a safe queen, it would not matter as it has not been used. I would have to think about whether I would modify an existing handle.

Horse has modified his Mora, and so far, so good. I suppose it might vary by brand or model, depending on the exact composition of the handle. If all the way to the steel as Horse has done, perhaps the steel helps minimize problems. If you modify your Mora, I'll be curious as to your results once you use it. :)
 
Donald, is that teflon bearing comercially available? How large is it?

Thanks,

-- FLIX
 
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