Making a ultra fine Ceramic stone

M

Maxlord

Joined
Jul 11, 2021
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I just brought a fine bench ceramic stone form spyderco used it for a couple of days before usages. I used my ceramic pocket stone to make it ultra fine with the coarse side got the idea form a Amazon commet that suggested sand paper and the stone was used because I lacked sand paper. So the result afterwards was a noticeably smoother and softer to touch stone my question is has anyone tryed what I did and get the same outcome
 
I have not tried this with the Fine Spyderco stone, but I did dress my Spyderco Ultra Fine bench stone with both a nano-hone diamond plate, and then some Sic powder.

It was a PITA, but doing so removed all surface imperfections and made the stone noticeably smoother, and extremely fine. And it works noticeably better, too!

I would think doing what you did to a Fine stone would make that side work great as a finishing stone, or even just a hone to touch up the edge between actual sharpening's.
 
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Using alumina ceramic against itself will result in glazing your stone, wearing out the abrasive on the surface, and reducing its cutting ability while making it more prone to forming a gummy wire edge.

Using diamond plates is slow and not recommended unless you're trying to generate a very fine surface finish.

Loose lapidary diamond grit on a flat glass plate or stone tile will do the best job by a wide margin for initial flattening. Further loose grit in a finer grain size may be used for refinement, or a fine diamond plate.
 
Listen to 42. Not just because that's a good number either... Heh. Using koose grit leaves a good texture on the surface of the hone in terms of the microstructure. It will basically leave many very sharp tiny peaks and little valleys as the loose grit rolls and scoops out tiny chunks of the hone surface. This is good for you in terms of keeping the hone cutting well instead of creating a surface with something like a diamond plate, which basically plateaus the surface of the hone to an even level leaving low points in the form of linear scratches, in effect glazing it as 42 mentioned.

I tried both ways when I did my 3"x8"plate UF hone. Done right, the surface formed by the loose grit will still cut instead of more or less burnishing like the surface created by a diamond plate. I found that a surface created by a diamond plate tends to create more wire edges/burrs if you're not very careful also, though it will still work to finer effect than the original surface. And tenacious ones at that.
 
I think the diamond plate plays a big part in this. There is a HUGE difference between an Atoma 140 and the Nano-Hone NL-5 that I used. The Atoma 140 is for lapping coarse stones. The NL-5 works on stones up to 30K. I have a full set (140/600/1200) of Atoma's, and the finish the NL-5 leaves is night and day different.

Again though, to each his own. I did that to make the surface of the Ultra Fine bench stone as uniform as possible, as when these are new, the surface is surprisingly non-uniform. You can still see the swirl (Saw?) marks from whatever they cut or grind those things flat with. However, after the lapping process I described, the surface is DEAD-FLAT, but is still cuts.

The biggest thing I like about the NL-5 is the surface finish it leaves. It is uniform and smooth, but not glazed and/or shiny. You feel the raw texture of the stone, but there is no glazing when using that plate. I'm not trying to sound like an advertisement for Nano-Hone, or the NL-5, but the finish these things leave is just incredible, and is nothing like even what a 1200 grit Atoma leaves.

Now I have to admit I don't use it for a finishing stone when I sharpen like I would a 2K or 4K Shapton Glass water stone. I use the Ultra Fine Spyderco as a hone to keep my knives sharp between actual stone sharpenings, and will bounce back and forth between the UF and a strop loaded with diamond compound to maintain sharpness.
 
Using loose grit is just a night and day difference in terms of *speed* of flattening. However you want to finish that surface (loose grit or a plate) is up to you, but that's part of the fun with sintered stones. They function less like sandpaper and more like a file. The surface finish has a huge impact on how it cuts and the finish it produces on a given knife.
 
A large factor in how well a diamond plate will work is how old it is. Manufacturer doesn't really make a difference. A fresh new plate from any manufacturer will have nice sharp diamond particles that will cut more cleanly and faster. An old diamond plate will have dulled diamond particles that will be likely to leave a VERY glazed surface.

I have to agree that loose grit is the best way to go in any case. If you don't want to do that, I suggest using a NEW diamond plate if you want to go that route.

The "swirl" pattern you see on the factory UF hone was created by a diamond cup grinding wheel as it traversed across the part. I have photos and info straight from Sal Glesser about that from years ago here on BF somewhere.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Loose lapidary diamond grit on a flat glass plate or stone tile will do the best job by a wide margin for initial flattening. Further loose grit in a finer grain size may be used for refinement, or a fine diamond plate.
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FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades I’ve never tried loose diamond grit powder before. Can you post some info on where I would get some, and how coarse/fine you would recommend for the stone care we’re talking about here?
 
Glock Guy said:
FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades I’ve never tried loose diamond grit powder before. Can you post some info on where I would get some, and how coarse/fine you would recommend for the stone care we’re talking about here?
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As coarse as you can get, and you can pick up about a carat or so for about $15 shipped on the big auction site. Even coarse lapidary diamond is closer to fine sand than the "extremely coarse sand" of coarse silicon carbide grits and the fine is like flour. Because industrial diamonds are grown, the coarse is more expensive than the fine, in contrast to regular aluminum oxide and silicon carbide abrasives, which are grown as large clusters that are then crushed and graded.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Using alumina ceramic against itself will result in glazing your stone, wearing out the abrasive on the surface, and reducing its cutting ability while making it more prone to forming a gummy wire edge.

Using diamond plates is slow and not recommended unless you're trying to generate a very fine surface finish.

Loose lapidary diamond grit on a flat glass plate or stone tile will do the best job by a wide margin for initial flattening. Further loose grit in a finer grain size may be used for refinement, or a
Click to expand...

FortyTwoBlades said:
Using alumina ceramic against itself will result in glazing your stone, wearing out the abrasive on the surface, and reducing its cutting ability while making it more prone to forming a gummy wire edge.

Using diamond plates is slow and not recommended unless you're trying to generate a very fine surface finish.

Loose lapidary diamond grit on a flat glass plate or stone tile will do the best job by a wide margin for initial flattening. Further loose grit in a finer grain size may be used for refinement, or a fine diamond plate.
Click to expand...
How would it take with a dimond plate
 
I lapped a single side (same on both sides) spyderco fine pocket stone with a worn out coarse/extra coarse smiths diamond stone with excellent results.

Now the stone has a fine side and an ultra fine side and believe me, the ultra fine definitely still removes steel and polishes perfectly. (was always a bit miffed why spyderco didnt offer an ultra fine ceramic pocket stone).

But with lapping there really isnt any need. Did take about 35-40 minutes.

The ultra fine side is also great for acting as a sort of butcher steel, I basically strop my edges on it instead of using leather so they don't round over.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
I lapped a single side (same on both sides) spyderco fine pocket stone with a worn out coarse/extra coarse smiths diamond stone with excellent results.

Now the stone has a fine side and an ultra fine side and believe me, the ultra fine definitely still removes steel and polishes perfectly.
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And believe us, you don't know what you're missing. I've done it both ways, as I'm sure 42 has. The loose grit method gives far better results. A dull/worn diamond plate-lapped UF often gave me a lot of trouble with creating a wire edge/burr. Not so with the loose grit-lapped UF.
 
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A BIG thanks to both FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades and E eKretz on the loose diamond powder, as I had never heard of that before, so I didn't even know it was an option.

I ordered a few different grits of the 'Bay and they will be here tomorrow!

I'm looking forward to seeing what the difference is. I'll be sure to report back with what I've found.
 
eKretz said:
And believe us, you don't know what you're missing. I've done it both ways, as I'm sure 42 has. The loose grit method gives far better results. A full diamond plate-lapped UF often gave me a lot of trouble with creating a wire edge/burr. Not so with the loose grit-lapped UF.
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I do indeed believe! Benjamin is an estute observer. I'll definitely have to take a look at this powder now.

One of the reasons I chose an old worn out extra coarse diamond stone to lap with was it's immediate availability :) I too was unaware such powder exists.

I wonder if you could go full mirror with it as a finishing stone... I know the 306uf had good results.
 
Yes. Just a little though. Enough to make the powder adhere to the plate. If you use soap of any sort I'd recommend something low suds like a little dab of clothes detergent so it doesn't foam up and obscure what you're doing. The finer the grit you use the sooner you'll need to refresh your grit, too, just because the shed grit from the stone will mud up, and you can't reasonably rinse it away without also rinsing away the diamond, but in the fine grits you end up progressing pretty quickly anyhow in terms of finish.
 
I got a new 20$ dimond plate and use it on my cermic stone to break it ,did the criss cross pencil trick 3 times and it worked form my experience the blade has a fine edge that cut well and nice shine. Thank you very much
eKretz said:
And believe us, you don't know what you're missing. I've done it both ways, as I'm sure 42 has. The loose grit method gives far better results. A full diamond plate-lapped UF often gave me a lot of trouble with creating a wire edge/burr. Not so with the loose grit-lapped UF.
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The "full mirror" or rather polishing the surface of the UF to a shine is not a great idea, IMO. This is in effect glazing the hone, which will make it act in a very dull fashion - which means very high polish on the steel, but very little material removal, and mostly it will be through a burnishing or plastic deformation mechanism rather than cutting, which means if you do more than a very little bit of work on the edge you're going to be riding the A-train to Burr City.
 
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