Making of a bowie and a hunter (including tang fitting)

B

bullet101

Joined
Dec 1, 2003
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In this thread I want to display the progress on two of the knives that I already showed on my "health rant"-thread: www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375076 .

With the advise of Burt I was able to achieve an unbelivable tight fit on my hidden tang knives, without having to split the handle and mortise it. I always hated to mortise my tangs since I disliked the look of an interupted woodgrain at best or a distinctive black hairline at worst, especially on light colored woods.

I just saw no way to accomodate the long tangs I prefer into a block of wood, but as you can see on these pics with some good tips and a lot of practice I found a way. The fit is even so close that I have to use a woodworkers clamp to push the tang into the handle, and it's nearly impossible to get the handle of just by hand.
And as you can see in the thread mentioned above I make no sacrifice in regard to the tang lenght. I'm really glad Burt explained me how he does it, because before using his method fitting tang's had always been a bit of "guesswork" without really having the controll over the process.

So here are the pics, I hope they don't bore you:

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Looking forward to your comments.

Regards Marcus
 
Marcus, your work has been and continues to be most excellent!

How about sharing the tang-fitting method, bitte?:)
 
bullet101 said:
With the advise of Burt I was able to achieve an unbelivable tight fit on my hidden tang knives, without having to split the handle and mortise it. I always hated to mortise my tangs since I disliked the look of an interupted woodgrain at best or a distinctive black hairline at worst, especially on light colored woods.
Click to expand...

Very Nice work !
Can you tell more about the technique who used to make your tight fit ?

Alain
 
Looks great. I also would like to know how you do them as my hidden tangs are usually kinda loose until the epoxy. :D
 
Marcus,
Why did you post pictures, with no text to explain your technique. I have done hundreds of hidden tang knives and I have found that making the fit too tight is sometimes not advantageous. If you have no way to adjust the handle in relationship to the tang, because it fits so tight, you are pretty well stuck with whatever that fit gives you. I Find this is especially true when you start using more complex shapes in the handles. Many of the knives I make have long curved handles that invariable need to be tweeked at the final fit. If i could not twist the handle around the tang I would be sol. I believe the epoxy should completely surround the tang for a proper grip. I use the long Zip cut , high speed bits after I do the boring on the drill press. I have done it both ways tight and loose, and in knife handles, I prefer loose. In women I prefer "blondes" Jams Fred :confused::D:cool:
 
Cool looking knives, make sure you show the finished product.

I'm with Fred, I firmly believe that you need room for the epoxy around the tang. And like Fred said it makes final assembly so much easier to get rite. Even on knives where I grind the guard and handle together I leave a little slop in the tange hole just to be sure of a layer of epoxy around the tang.
 
When I reread my post now, it just sounds like I discovered a top secret technique. But I'm not the kind of person that is telling "mumbo jumbo", this certainly ain't the new "Burt Foster school of knifemaking" ;).

I wrote this thread for the Custom Arena and didn't want to bother them with "technical" stuff. So I hope you can forgive me that one :).

It probably isn't something new to you some of you. The technique Burt explained me was to use epoxy to get the final fit, so the blade is still removable but at the same time rock solid embeded into the handle. You simply work out your normal tang hole and then grease up the tang just a little bit and put epoxy into the hole. Now you put the tang into the hole and clamp the whole thing in a large "wood clamp" (don't know the english term for it) and there is plenty of time to properly align the blade to the handle and do all the other little tweaking jobs you were talking about.

If the epoxy is set you can remove the blade with a slight tap on the guard, and now you have a 100% tight fit, without having to fear that the handle material is set under pressure in some spots.

That's it with Burts method. But I guess some of you have more problems in getting a straight, long tang hole into the handle without creating a way to oversized hole. Those oversized holes are in my eyes a certain instability factor in the finished handle and I've heard often that when grinding the handle makers accidently grind into the hole as it is way broader than a 4-6 mm thick tang.

I will post some pics of the tools and methods I'm using this evening. The concept is very similar to the broaches but in my eyes this tool works a lot faster and more aggressive. Especially if you just have a 6 mm hole to start with. Broaches often are to large at the tip to get started in such a small space.


Regards Marcus
 
That's basically how you bed a rifle. Pam kitchen spray is a good release agent. With the rifle it's so you can take the stock off when you need to.
 
I look forward to seeing the tool and technique, Marcus. It's always good to add to our bag or tricks. Thanks!
 
Very cool -- can't wait to see the tool (I hate that part of knifemaking)
 
Here are the promised pics (although they lack a bit in quality).

First you have to drill out the larger part of the tang hole. I usually use a 6mm extra long drill bit. On narrow tangs two drilled holes should suffice, on broader tangs it's better two drill three times as pictured below:

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Afterwards clamp the block into your vise and start to remove the left over "web" with following handy little tool.

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I often read that you should take !one! jigsaw blade to do this job, at best they say two blades glued together. But one and even two blades glued together are still way to flexible and don't produce a nice retangular hole.
So I tried the whole thing with 4 sawblades which work out to a working thickness of 5-6 mm. You simply have to allign them properly, glue 'em together and grind them down so that at least the tip fits into a 6 mm whole.

With a little practice the web removing is a job of 5 minutes. I found the industrial ground saw teeth to be way more aggressive than I could ever file them myself on a handle broach.

If there's a little bit of web left at the bottom of the hole, that's difficult to get out, simply abuse your dril bit and "mill" it away holding the block of wood freehand. Don't use your most precious table drill as we all know that on the long run it'll affect the bearings :D.

It might need a bit of practice to get used to it, but once you'r in the groove it works like a breeze.

I hope this little tutorial might be helpfull to some of you.

Best regards,
Marcus
 
wow man i think this is the first time i've really checked out your work. that is one impressive set of knives. when are they up for sale?? i need a christmas present for myself
 
sweet. I'm going to have to try out that jigsaw broach on my next hidden tang. Thanks! :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the photos Marcus. Two great looking knives :).

I thought I was the only one who used saw blades ;), it looks like they work better for you than they do for me.

I spend considerable time cutting, milling, flattening, and epoxying slabs. Block construction seems like it is much more efficient. I'll have to start working on block handles...

Also, thanks for the "epoxy tang" tip, I'll give that a try.
 
Thank you, Marcus! I've never tried that tool, but I will!! I usually use a mix of re-ground riffler files and rasps after the sdrilled holes.

Good idea!
 
Thanks for that Marcus....

I have a question....something I didnt quite understand.

You mention using oil or grease on your tang then setting it in epoxy, so the tang can then be tapped out.

When it comes to final fit, do you epoxy the tang back into the hole, or is it left un epoxied...and if you do epoxy it for final fit, how do u get the epoxy to stick with the remains of the grease in the hole?

Thanks.
 
Now I see what your doing, I've done a few with the beading methoud, especialy if I needed to be able to remove the handle to finish it. Cool tool. I use something similar from a sawzaw blade, but I'm only using one blade. May be a bit thicker as I don't have a problem with flex and it cuts on the pull stroke.
 
I'm glad that you all like the idea.

@ Michael: If you should seriously be interested in one of my knives feel free to contact me anytime. All the contact info is on my site www.lehrleknives.blademakers.com

@Kevin: I wipe out the tang hole with an aceton soaked rag. That works quite well as you only have to get out a small amount of grease. You only have to use a tiny amount of grease when embedding the tang. A thin film already stops the epoxy from bonding to the tang.

As I aditionally pin my handles, I have no real concerns that the tang will break loose one day.

Here's my new etching stencil and the progres I made on the hunter.

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The knife will go out to the customer in this rough state so he can test it real good, without having to fear damage on the finish. When it comes back, I'm going to grind the guard and handle a little thinner, as they are still a bit on the "fat" side :).

Looking forward to your answers.

Regards Marcus
 
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