Mammoth Ivory

C

c00per

Joined
May 13, 2007
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I have considered buying a knife with mammoth ivory handles before but I am not yet sure of the ethical implications of doing so and was hoping you folks could help.

What is the deal with mammoth ivory? How is it obtained, and why are we allowed to use it on knives? Its my understanding that mammoth ivory and skeletons are very useful to paleontologists if it is found in situ, so who is it that finds and sells the mammoth fossil? Fossil hunters (much like some metal detectorists and bottle hunters in archaeology) are a great problem in paleontology and I would not feel right contributing to this by buying knives.

Thanks for your help,
Matt.
 
Mammoth Ivory really is not that rare. Most museums have plenty of it and it is readily available if they want more.

Some experts estimate that there are a million or more wooly mammoth preserved in the ice in one area of Siberia alone. Of course, most mammoth tusks are buried in the ice in some of the most remote and harshest climates in the world so digging them up and bringing them to market is not a simple or inexpensive task.

In other cases, tusks have been found just lying exposed along river banks in Alaska as a result of natural ice melt.

Unlike elephant ivory, there are no restrictions on the trade or sale of mammoth ivory as no animals are being harmed to harvest it.
 
Matt
The sale of mammoth ivory is of great benefit to Alaskan and Siberian natives and gold miners. The broken tusks are very rarely primary deposition. This material is found when the coast line or river erodes and exposes material that has been deposited by previous foods. There is over 50,000 pounds of mammoth ivory collected each year in Siberia. In a good year Alaska produces over 10,000 pounds. You can own a knife with this wonderful material with a clear conscience.
 
Yes, MisterSat, plenteous museums displaying mammoth. The most famous one is located in Success, Missouri, where the head paleontologist moves inventory around with forklifts and cranes. Paleontologists at UC (Berkley) and San Fransisco's mayor have blown the whistle on said paleontologist for inexplicably and outrageously sawing up said inventory into tiny subsets measuring 5x1" or less. The Sierra Club and Al Gore's people are investigating this very moment, and my sources tell me the lid will blow off with an MSNBC special linking this dastardly deed to another one of those failed Bush policies this Friday night at 7 PM E.T.

Until then, sleepless at Dos Loups Creek

ken
 
Thanks for the info guys. I figured the museums already have plenty of mammoth. The science isn't all there yet however and if the mammoth ivory was taken from a skeleton in-situ, then valuable information would be lost forever. Hearing that the Ivory is taken from erosion zones makes me rest easier!:p

Anybody ever come across a dissenting opinion?
 
The America Association of Vertebrate Paleontologists is a group of academics and professionals who would like to see no trade in this fossil material. I know of individual paleontologists in this group who encourage the collecting of material that has no diagnostic value.
When I asked Larry Martin director of the Natural History Museum and Biodiversity Research Center at University of Kansas his feelings on this subject and his response was that there are few Paleontologists and many Fossils.
 
ken Williams said:
yes, Mistersat, Plenteous Museums Displaying Mammoth. The Most Famous One Is Located In Success, Missouri, Where The Head Paleontologist Moves Inventory Around With Forklifts And Cranes. Paleontologists At Uc (berkley) And San Fransisco's Mayor Have Blown The Whistle On Said Paleontologist For Inexplicably And Outrageously Sawing Up Said Inventory Into Tiny Subsets Measuring 5x1" Or Less. The Sierra Club And Al Gore's People Are Investigating This Very Moment, And My Sources Tell Me The Lid Will Blow Off With An Msnbc Special Linking This Dastardly Deed To Another One Of Those Failed Bush Policies This Friday Night At 7 Pm E.t.

Until Then, Sleepless At Dos Loups Creek

Ken
Click to expand...
:D:D:D:cool:
 
akivory said:
The America Association of Vertebrate Paleontologists is a group of academics and professionals who would like to see no trade in this fossil material. I know of individual paleontologists in this group who encourage the collecting of material that has no diagnostic value.
When I asked Larry Martin director of the Natural History Museum and Biodiversity Research Center at University of Kansas his feelings on this subject and his response was that there are few Paleontologists and many Fossils.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Akivory. Looks like I am gona be spending lots of money in the near future:grumpy::D.
 
there is no real ethical issue with mammoth ivory- i've heard of crab fisherman hauking up massive tusks, 3 or 4 times in an outing, apparently the north sea used to be an open plain where millions of mammoth lived.

they just throw the tusks back:O
 
Mammoth ivory is about my favorite handle medium. I am a biologist and a field associate at our state museum. There are many tusks and skeletons throughout the northern hemisphere. Most museums do not want them. They have plenty already and storage space is a principle factor.

Here in Mississippi we did not have wooly mammoths but we did have mastodons. They are unearthed all the time during gravel operations and road building. Unless it is an extremely fine, complete specimen, we usually pass on them. They get ground up. Hence, we drive on surfaces made up of, at least in part, mastodon bones! From a knife angle, Dixie missed out on the Ice Age and our tusks are of poor quality, preservation-wise. Unusable for knife handles.

I refuse to use elephant ivory, pre-ban or not. My personal decision. If a customer wants "white ivory", I use interior mammoth pieces or white exterior crackled pieces. To the untrained eye it is indistinquishable from elephant and possesses the wow factor.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer
ABS MS
 
Apparently the north sea used to be an open plain where millions of mammoth lived. They just throw the tusks back:O
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That's correct but the funny part is that is hardly any good ivory for sale in the Netherlands. I believe that Anders and the other Swedes have a concession for all the North Sea waters:D;)

If a customer wants "white ivory", I use interior mammoth pieces or white exterior crackled pieces. To the untrained eye it is indistinquishable from elephant and possesses the wow factor.
Click to expand...


Terry, but if you know how (and where) to look the difference is clearly visible.

Marcel
 
The Wooly Mammoth is an endagered species of the most critical type......extinct. I guess it was ineveitable what with an animal that big thinking it could hide for 40,000 years in a shallow hole in the permafrost and not expect human hunters to find it:D
 
jdm61 said:
The Wooly Mammoth is an endagered species of the most critical type......extinct.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I actually had to explain this distinction to a chucklehead customs officer who wanted to seize my mammoth ivory handled Bradshaw bowie. Sheesh.

Roger
 
At a show i was given a hard time for using this ivory and endangering these poor animals. I told the lady that we did not kill them and that we kept them in a field field and cut off their tusks every spring.
I think she believed me.
 
Eventually those old mammoths fall over dead, and when they do, you better be there with your chain saw for a quick grab and gettaway!!!!!!
 
I make twice yearly trips to Alaska on business. There are shops in Fairbanks and Anchorage that sell the ivory, which is where I try to get most of mine. During discussions with the shop owners, I've learned that most of the ivory comes in from the one and two man gold mining operations. They are not permitted to mine for gold in "active" streambeds, but are permitted to mine in "inactive" stream beds. I'm told that the stream beds have to have been "inactive" for generations, not just a few years. I'm not sure of the actual amount of time. The gold, being very heavy settles out in the stream banks at sharp turns. Mammoth ivory, being very heavy also, settles out in the same places that gold settles out. So the gold miners find the ivory as part of their gold mining operations, and throw it in the back of their trucks. When the truck is full of ivory, they run to town and sell it to the licensed dealers so that they can buy more gas, food, etc. The ivory is then sold to dealers and individuals, with native americans getting an established share of the proceeds, which benefits them, the dealers and knifemakers. I've been in rooms that were just stacked floor to ceiling and wall to wall with this stuff. The dealers know when the best time of year is for being able to get great ivory and just camp out, waiting for it to come in. Since the timing of my business trips (my real job) is at my customers requests, I have been unable to be up there at the prime time of the year, but I can still usually find some nice stuff anyhow. It's usually sold by the pound, unless it's been cleaned and polished up. I get it in the rawest, most natural state and do all of the polishing and cleaning up myself.

I can tell you though, that it's an awesome sight, to see so much ivory and bone just stacked up in a room.
 
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