Man dies trying to save his family. RIP James Kim

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outofgum

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Earlier this week, James Kim, a well known (well liked) senior editor at Cnet and father of two died in the woods in Oregon while trying to get help for his family. Their car was stuck in the wilderness with little food and no supplies. He set off to get help from a town which he believed was close, but he never made it.
News report: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061207/ap_on_re_us/missing_family
Memorial: http://news.com.com/2009-12-6141617.html

I don't want to critique his decisions, or second guess them. I want to know what you guys would do in the same situation. I've thought about it, and I really wouldn't know how to handle it. Apparently the area was not well population so the chances of passing vehicle was low. There was very little food, and the weather was cold. The family stayed alive by first using the car heater till the car ran out of gas, and then burning the tires. They were found by rescuers 11 days after they were stuck.

I want to discuss this situation because of this tragic event - it is also something that could happen to any one of us.

Edit: I apologize if this is posted in the wrong forum. I would appreciate it if the mods would move it if it is.
 
moving-van.jpg
 
When it comes to your family surviving I prolly would've done the same thing. However, I feel very comfortable in the woods, even in those temperatures I think I would've done alright. They said he had some woods experience but with the way the media is that could mean he went hunting once or twice. Its a tough call, obviously he didn't do the right thing knowing what we know now, but at the same time to preserve his family I would say he did the only thing that would be right in that situation. Don't know if that makes sense.
-Ron
 
the man had infants, as a nurse i would have to say that the infants would have died way before the adults, his children were probably crying a ton and it just makes you anxious... to death... plus people forget that after x number of days it does not become search and rescue anymore it becomes recovery where they reduce man power. Furthermore the longer you wait you don't know how the weather is going to change, and what if a huge snow storm came down on the 9 th day and covered their car etc... they be sol at that point. If the weather condition change those of you who elected to stay in the car.. will be kicking yourself in the butt because you know its game over.. unless you get really lucky and someone finds you. If you knew that the weather was going to get really bad.... would you try to hike out when the weather was better? I would probably have tried to hike out or see what i could find in the way of food after a couple of days when i still have strength. I would have tore up the seats etc... to make insulation and head gear i think he could have made it if he broke down the stuff in his car
there tons of insulation material that he could have kept him warm
and there always plastic etc.... If nothing else he could have extended his chance of survival by getting twigs etc... that may be found long distances away. hell if i were him i would burn one of those tires get lots of green material... and send up a huge smoke cloud...
 
Yeah, if it was me, and I was able to set tires on fire, I would have built the largest fire I could short of starting a forrest fire. You would think a plane or a forrest fire look out tower or something would see all teh smoke and send someone to investigate. Wasn't this guy some kind of tech reporter? I'm surprised he didn't have a GPS navigation system with him, or in his car. My minivan has a navigation system so I wouldn't have gotten lost in the first place.
 
Most onboard nav system are not going to save you from Forest Service roads. They usually don't appear on point-to-point traffic road maps, only dedicated topo downloads.

They reportedly had a 2005 Saab 9-3. I wonder if OnStar could have saved them were they subscribers. Isn't that a satellite based system?
 
the warning of "stay where you are" only works for so long. after x number of days, you have to make a decision when chances are no one is actively looking anymore.

the survivors of "ALIVE" would not have made it had they stayed with the plane, took 2 men to walk out and get the rest rescued at the end.
 
At a minimum a GPS system could have alerted him that he was turning off the main road. He could have realized his error in half a mile instead of in 5 or 10 miles or whatever it was.
 
That's crazy. I visit CNET all the time for tech news and reviews. I'm not certain what I would have done in the same situation, but I'm not sure it would have been all that different from what he did.
 
I know for a fact I (and my wife) could have survived. I am assuming that they were out of cell phone range. I keep my truck very well stocked for occaisions just like this. I keep drinking water, hand tools, shelter halves, twelve days worth of rations ( could be stretched to more if need be), and a first aid kit. I feel quite confident that provided I was not seriously injured I would have been able to survive.
 
He paniked because of the infants which is totaly understandable. Unfortunately he was completely unprepared with supplies and clothing. This is the reason we all hang out here. Cbrlife_30 said what we're all thinking. We'd have made it because we're prepared.

Does anybody here think a flare gun might have helped him get rescued quicker. Just asking, don't have one in my truck personally. Not much cause in GA. Or so I thought.
 
I live in south Texas and people look at me like Im crazy because I keep three wool blankets in my truck, but I tell them better safe then sorry, I also keep water, food, and tools for emergencies.
 
hannibal lecter spyderco said:
the man had infants, as a nurse i would have to say that the infants would have died way before the adults, his children were probably crying a ton and it just makes you anxious... to death... plus people forget that after x number of days it does not become search and rescue anymore it becomes recovery where they reduce man power. Furthermore the longer you wait you don't know how the weather is going to change, and what if a huge snow storm came down on the 9 th day and covered their car etc... they be sol at that point. If the weather condition change those of you who elected to stay in the car.. will be kicking yourself in the butt because you know its game over.. unless you get really lucky and someone finds you. If you knew that the weather was going to get really bad.... would you try to hike out when the weather was better? I would probably have tried to hike out or see what i could find in the way of food after a couple of days when i still have strength. I would have tore up the seats etc... to make insulation and head gear i think he could have made it if he broke down the stuff in his car
there tons of insulation material that he could have kept him warm
and there always plastic etc.... If nothing else he could have extended his chance of survival by getting twigs etc... that may be found long distances away. hell if i were him i would burn one of those tires get lots of green material... and send up a huge smoke cloud...
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When babys get cold dont they go into a special mode that keeps the vitals warm because they cant shivver?
 
The babes were being fed and I assume warm so they could have survived indefinately as long as the wife was ok. The natives did this for a million years. He bowed to the strain of it all and made the wrong choice.

Skam
 
That's really too bad, I feel sorry for his family. Mistakes will be made. If it was me, I think I would stay with the car and family. The car is a shelter and it's recognizable from the air.
 
It is a tragedy. Mr. James Kim, rest in peace.

I would normally have some supplies with me in my car or truck. He was caught in a snow storm in the boonies. I believe I would have waited for the snow to end and then made some decisions in conference with my wife. Since they were in a car, I would have stayed on the road and kept my eyes open for any signs of a driveway, building etc. There was a lodge not far away from where they were stranded.

Situational awareness. Paying attention when you drive to the sights and signs are always good even if it is only a subconscious observation.

Mr. Kim apparently traveled in a rather unusual course. I don't quite understand the travel. I assume there were mountains and I would have taken roads which seem to be headed in the direction I believed would take me down hill and out of the National Forest. Following water is usually a good choice except in perhaps Alaska where you might be 100 miles from anything.

I would have built a HUGE fire in the middle of the road (if necessary). The smoke would have been eventually seen. It is a tough call when you have very young children. They wouldn't survive long exposed to the elements and ultimately his choice to try to find help is probably what I would have done. Do the best you can, walk. Make shelter and build a fire at night... walk some more.
 
babies have a larger surface area less water volume per area they burn calories at light speed all organs are imature they have less body fat compared to adults. If she was the typical mother she was weaning her babies off of milk and onto baby food, her milk production was probably down and it didn't look like she was a large breasted woman in the first place. So milk production would have been questionable, also she may not have been drinking enough water body starts to shut down milk production at that point. I keep at least 4 gallons of water in the car at all times, you need at least a gallon of water to live on a day maybe just a bit less in that situation.

Some of the things I did notice was the following.

The color of the car looked to be a silver which would have blended in to the rocks below somewhat from the air.

I don't understand why they didn't take bright clothes and layed it out on the roof making a sign of some sort that could be seen in the air.

side mirrows could have been inverted to allow a signal when the sun hits it.


Not to second guess mr kim but how in the world did he end up on a dirt road in the first place? Did he decide to go off roading or something? It would seem from the map that the wrong turn he made was a dirt road.

I would to say this, I don't think what he did was wrong it comes down to a bit of luck and skill. if the temp was 40 to 50 degrees.

By the look of the car the windows are still intact and uncovered, why didn't he cover the windows because car with the car under the hood insulation and what not?

He could have kept a flame on going if he wanted to there always scrap.

I think he could have made it if he had insulated himself from the weather by using stuff he found in the car and would hae protected himself from the elements and paced himself 50 degrees isn't that bad.
 
hannibal lecter spyderco said:
I would to say this, I don't think what he did was wrong it comes down to a bit of luck and skill. if the temp was 40 to 50 degrees.
Click to expand...

hannibal lecter spyderco said:
50 degrees isn't that bad.
Click to expand...

"Most hypothermia cases develop in air temperatures between 30 and 50 degrees. Most outdoor enthusiast simply can't believe such temperatures can be dangerous. They fatally underestimate the danger of being wet at such temperatures. Fifty degree water is unbearably cold. The cold that kills is cold water running down your neck and legs, and cold water removing body heat from the surface of your clothes."

from: http://www.outdoorclub.org/Hypothermia.html
 
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