Manix 2... I am confused.

[Luis G.]

Is the Manix 2 meant to be a hard use folder?
The reason I ask is that the design seems to allow for incredible stresses on the lock without high risk of failure. However in practice it's completely different due to the tolerances.

I got the knife new, and had to reassemble it out of the box to get rid of the nasty gritty feeling and considerable blade play. No problem, usually I resassemble my knives anyways since it tends to solve most issues with action, and lock up.

However in real use I am currently perplexed and stuck on my opinion..

I've done 2 separate tests on the knife.
1. First test was simple wood shaving, the manix performed well but developed small blade play however the lock up felt solid. 3 spine whacks caused the blade to disengage, and the knife would be closed with finger pressure. I took it apart to the blade/pivot first and reassembled. No luck, same issues persisted. I then took it apart completely again down to the scales and reassembled it again. Fixed the play, and fixed the lock up issue. 4 spine whacks, and the knife help just fine. I disregarded the failure and figured it was because I reassembled it.

2. Second test: Batonning, chopping, and stabbing. The knife developed considerable blade play pretty much how it was out of the box. The lock, failed miserably. I tested with spine taps (light hits) 5 times, each time it failed easily. I could disengage the lock with a simple tap of the finger. I took it apart again to the pivot/blade only and reassembled it. It remained the same. i took it apart again, this time once again down to the scales and reassembled.
The knife was literally back to normal. No play, 2-3 very hard spine whacks without failure. This quite frankly impressed me. (So much so, I decided to get it pimped).

Very important information: When it was new out of the box, I messed with the pivot portion first, and not the backspacer. This did not solve the blade play or gritty issue. it wasn't until I reassembled down to the scales that blade play was fixed (pivot/blade/backspacer). This was ALSO the case the other 2 times the knife developed play, or the lock failed. Each time the backspacer had to be readjusted.

At this point I can only think of one thing:
1. The tolerances allow for a little bit of play in the backspacer, which I believe is the reason for the blade failing to lock up and possibly the blade play (when it shifts, the screws go at an angle and or the liners shift, which can allow for tiny gaps, and allow for blade play).

I believe this is happening due to the geometry in the tang and backspacer which seems to gravitate towards the ball traveling down, and not up in high stress situations. (Similar to what Ankerson discovered in his testing, where the ball would roll down under stress, except in my case which is a bit more exaggerated by the hard use or abuse.

Or also to add a pin or TWO through the 2 liners and the backspace to help add rigidity so it will not shift.

 

[9blades]

Hate to say this...but it sounds to me like you expect a *folding* knife to do the work of a fixed blade, argue this all you want but a folding knife is not ment to be batoned (is that how you spell it?) as far as I'm concerned in normal or hard use cutting tasks there shouldn't be any need for pressure on the spine whatsoever...also just a heads up. I don't mean to call BS, we all have are own standards for the knives we buy.

No disrespect intended.

-niner

 

[MSgt]

I believe you got a 'bad one'. I got my Manix II about six months ago (blue translucent model) and the blade's centered, tight lockup with no play whatsoever. I'd advise contacting SpiderCo and talking to them about your problem.

 

[HardTripper]

Yeah... You had me till spine whack. Im not judging you, Im just saying I dont care if my knife can withstand spine whacks. When properly used a knife with cut things with the sharpened edge, anything else is superfluous.

 

[Law of Thirds]

Spine whack... yeah, lost me there too. You cross the fine line between hard use and abuse when you decide to baton or spine whack a folding knife. It's been established that spine whacking isn't a realistic or fair test of a knife's strength.

Having said that: sounds like you may have gotten one with problems to begin with. Mine was smooth out of the box, locks up like a vault and withstands very heavy cutting tasks.

 

[Jastab]

Hate to say this...but it sounds to me like you expect a *folding* knife to do the work of a fixed blade, argue this all you want but a folding knife is not ment to be batoned (is that how you spell it?) as far as I'm concerned in normal or hard use cutting tasks there shouldn't be any need for pressure on the spine whatsoever...also just a heads up. I don't mean to call BS, we all have are own standards for the knives we buy.

No disrespect intended.

-niner

This ↑ my brother batoned through a 6" diameter tree, although it never failed on him, the lock is now all the way forward and has up and down blade play. Its a stout knife for sure, but there are the right tools out there for these kind of tasks (fixed blade). But I do enjoy reading about people putting their knives to extreme uses

 

[Luis G.]

Hate to say this...but it sounds to me like you expect a *folding* knife to do the work of a fixed blade, argue this all you want but a folding knife is not ment to be batoned (is that how you spell it?) as far as I'm concerned in normal or hard use cutting tasks there shouldn't be any need for pressure on the spine whatsoever...also just a heads up. I don't mean to call BS, we all have are own standards for the knives we buy.

No disrespect intended.

-niner

To be honest I am not here to start a debate and it's easy to get lost in other arguments which are not what I am discussing.
I do understand the concern given to my posts at times. This forum has seen it's share of trolls, and bad apples. I know some people look to push agendas or bash companies. My motive is simply that I like to tinker, and study knives. More often than not, I prefer to study them more than I like to use them.

I don't expect a folding knife to do the work of the knife. I am simply providing my input based on testing I am doing which I do on my own dime and my own risk. Do I believe a folding knife will or should replace a fixed knife? No, however I do feel some people may be inclined to believe knives are delicate. When they are not.

As I said in my post, I am VERY impressed by the knife however I believe it can be pushed further than what post people think folding knives really can be pushed.
The design of the locking mechanism is outstanding to be honest.

Spine whacking as well as other things help me figure out if the lock is engaged where it should be from simply opening the knife and allowing the spring to do it's job. If it fails, it doesn't mean that the lock design is bad it means something in the knife is out of spec for whatever reason (shifting, damaged, etc). Sometimes I spine whack gently because that's all that's required, other times when the knife has failed I will whack the crap out of it just to be sure.

Batoning is something I would honestly do if I didn't have a choice and have done actually, it's nice to know if it could survive it just as other knives have done so (fixed/folding). Which the Manix 2 could but may require reassembling to put everything back to spec.

No disrespect taken.
PS: In case some of you missed it. The Manix 2 handled the abuse or hard use testing with stride and only needed to be reassembled to be back to the original condition.

 

[nccole]

Yeah... You had me till spine whack. Im not judging you, Im just saying I dont care if my knife can withstand spine whacks. When properly used a knife with cut things with the sharpened edge, anything else is superfluous.

Sorry me too, I have never felt compelled to spine whack my knives. I see them as potentially causing irrevocable damage. I respect your curiosity, but doubt Spyderco would see this as constructive feedback leading to design changes. I doubt any company making a hard use folder would try to design a knife to be spine whacked and botonned with.

 

[9blades]

To be honest I am not here to start a debate and it's easy to get lost in other arguments which are not what I am discussing.
I do understand the concern given to my posts at times. This forum has seen it's share of trolls, and bad apples. I know some people look to push agendas or bash companies. My motive is simply that I like to tinker, and study knives. More often than not, I prefer to study them more than I like to use them.

I don't expect a folding knife to do the work of the knife. I am simply providing my input based on testing I am doing which I do on my own dime and my own risk. Do I believe a folding knife will or should replace a fixed knife? No, however I do feel some people may be inclined to believe knives are delicate. When they are not.

As I said in my post, I am VERY impressed by the knife however I believe it can be pushed further than what post people think folding knives really can be pushed.
The design of the locking mechanism is outstanding to be honest.

Spine whacking as well as other things help me figure out if the lock is engaged where it should be from simply opening the knife and allowing the spring to do it's job. If it fails, it doesn't mean that the lock design is bad it means something in the knife is out of spec for whatever reason (shifting, damaged, etc). Sometimes I spine whack gently because that's all that's required, other times when the knife has failed I will whack the crap out of it just to be sure.

Batoning is something I would honestly do if I didn't have a choice and have done actually, it's nice to know if it could survive it just as other knives have done so (fixed/folding). Which the Manix 2 could but may require reassembling to put everything back to spec.

No disrespect taken.
PS: In case some of you missed it. The Manix 2 handled the abuse or hard use testing with stride and only needed to be reassembled to be back to the original condition.

Alright....I understand what you mean, I really enjoy tinkering myself and in my opinion you made a valid point about spine whacking. I must also agree that it dose provide some peace of mind to know if you needed to, the knife could take it....and lastly I must tip my hat to you sir! It's nice to see someone start a thread like this with the intention of intelligent conversation:thumbup:

-niner

 

[Luis G.]

Alright....I understand what you mean, I really enjoy tinkering myself and in my opinion you made a valid point about spine whacking. I must also agree that it dose provide some peace of mind to know if you needed to, the knife could take it....and lastly I must tip my hat to you sir! It's nice to see someone start a thread like this with the intention of intelligent conversation:thumbup:

-niner

Sure thing, I appreciate the civility thus far.
I think I will put my money where my mouth is and figure out a way to modify the knife to prove the concepts of my recommendation. Just gotta wait for my Manix 2 to get back from pimping.

So far I think I will try to drill two holes on the backspacer/liners then add a metal pin inside and see if it helps with the lock disengaging after hard use or abuse.
If this doesn't work I will see if I can grind the tang and create the angled corner I am speaking of without affecting when the user wishes to disengage the knife.

 

[9blades]

Sure thing, I appreciate the civility thus far.
I think I will put my money where my mouth is and figure out a way to modify the knife to prove the concepts of my recommendation. Just gotta wait for my Manix 2 to get back from pimping.

So far I think I will try to drill two holes on the backspacer/liners then add a metal pin inside and see if it helps with the lock disengaging after hard use or abuse.
If this doesn't work I will see if I can grind the tang and create the angled corner I am speaking of without affecting when the user wishes to disengage the knife.

I would love to hear how this turns out:thumbup: also who's doing the pimping?

 

[Luis G.]

Sorry me too, I have never felt compelled to spine whack my knives. I see them as potentially causing irrevocable damage. I respect your curiosity, but doubt Spyderco would see this as constructive feedback leading to design changes. I doubt any company making a hard use folder would try to design a knife to be spine whacked and botonned with.

Agreed, spine whacking can cause irrevocable damage however think bout it this way.
Say you need to pry. You have 5 bars of the exactly same material to make your prying tool (crowbar if you will?).
.1", .25", .5", .75", and 1.50"
You have to pry with it these crowbars if you will, which one do you use to pry open a can of coke. Which one to pry open a door.
See what you used there? Judgement. Chances are you are not going to use the 1.50" thick crowbar to open the coke can, and you are definitely not using the .1" crowbar to pry open a door.
Now imagine if the .1" crowbar failed to pry open the coke can...

I find people who damage their knives permanently used bad judgement and in no way shape or form was it the knives fault (goes without saying unless it was defective already). Albeit that lack of judgement is needed sometimes when data can't be found to know what a knife is capable of or not.

Spine whacking serves no real world use however does help figure out if the lock is in proper place. Using judgement to figure out how hard to hit is key. I decided to whack the crap out of it after it failed the 1st time just to be sure because my limbs are at risk.

 

[Luis G.]

I would love to hear how this turns out:thumbup: also who's doing the pimping?

RVCustoms, from this forum. Just anso patterned blue scales for now. I honestly want to get a FFG manix 2 to do a real pimp job but definitely not looking to pay a massive premium for the FFG.
For now just scales since I can transfer those easy enough.

Edit: lets keep off topic things to PM. Sorry just realized I spammed this thread.

 

[Evil D]

In short, the knife was designed to be used hard to CUT things with the EDGE, not to spine whack things with it. Out of the box, the ball doesn't seem to engage very far on the tang...the problem is that if they did, you would hear complaints about lock lifespan and how far the lock has to move to disengage.

Another thing, we're dealing with a lock that operates by a spring. When you make impacts to it, that spring is going to vibrate and do funny things, allowing the lock to disengage. This isn't a sign of a weak lock, it just wasn't designed with impact in mind.

As for blade play, I have yet to use a knife that has washers and pivots the size that Spyderco uses, where when you apply a lot of lateral force, blade play doesn't happen. It's a drawback to the silky smooth opening action you get with most Spyderco knives. If you were to eliminate the washers completely and allow the blade to lay flush on the liners, you would have a vast increase in surface area between the blade and liners, which would greatly improve lateral strength, but at a huge cost in how smooth the opening action is. Which is more important to you?

If you want a knife you can pound nails with and spine whack trees down, I don't personally think Spyderco makes a knife designed for such abuse. Buy a Wildsteer WX.

 

[Luis G.]

In short, the knife was designed to be used hard to CUT things with the EDGE, not to spine whack things with it. Out of the box, the ball doesn't seem to engage very far on the tang...the problem is that if they did, you would hear complaints about lock lifespan and how far the lock has to move to disengage.

Another thing, we're dealing with a lock that operates by a spring. When you make impacts to it, that spring is going to vibrate and do funny things, allowing the lock to disengage. This isn't a sign of a weak lock, it just wasn't designed with impact in mind.

The problem isnt where the ball engages, it's the backspacer that shifts and the ball then has a way to be rolled out of the tang. Like I said, adding a angled corner could help, or adding extra rigidity to the spacer should help as well.

Spring is not affected during testing or whacking. At least not much. If anything at all the most stress it sees is in the action of opening/closing the knife where the spring is compressed and decompressed.

Not looking to either of those things, nail or knock trees over. If I wanted to knock trees over everyone knows the right tool for the job is a Browning .50 caliber machine gun...Lol.

 

[The-Stig]

I bought a screwdriver yesterday and decided the best job I could do with it was to chisel away some concrete. After I completely blunted the tip I concluded it was a badly made screwdriver. After that I decided that I'd use a chisel to tighten some loose screws. It didn't really fit and I stripped out the screws. I concluded it was a badly made chisel.

 

[Luis G.]

Make your comments clear Stig, don't fiddle around the bush.
So far I understand a man of straws.

 

[The-Stig]

Make your comments clear Stig, don't fiddle around the bush.
So far I understand a man of straws.

Usually I'm direct. Just felt like I'd relate knife use to other tools. I was always taught to use the right tool for the job growing up.

 

[Luis G.]

Forget it.
Okay you have your opinion Stig

 

[The-Stig]

Forget it.
Okay you have your opinion Stig

Don't mind me man. Just poking fun. It's your knife, you can use it for whatever you like. I need to start adding more smilies into my posts... Have a nice day, sir.