Manual Flipper in NYS

[SpaceVarmint]

This is completely NYS and not NYC. Including NYC would just confuse me more.

I apologize if this has been asked, but I've not been able to find the answer in days of searching online. I collect EDC type knives, but a few of my favorites are questionable and I don't know if I can work them in the rotation. These are the manual flippers. A good example would be the Civivi Elementum 2.9" flipper version. I have one Elementum that will consistently deploy as fast and scary looking as any assisted or auto. In fact, it's quite hard to intentionally misfire that one and get it to fail. It's that last part that really worries me.

I know NYS written law has been vague enough in the past that folding knives could usually be "placed" in two basic categories of illegal knives. Switchblades and Gravity Knives. Pretty much all folders could be placed there as a gravity knife before the repeal of that piece.

I know NYS written law has changed in the last few years to make "Gravity Knives" legal, but didn't really clarify any of the categories better than they were.

I know NYS case law has upheld that a spring assisted flipper was indeed a switchblade and illegal. Even though this isn't written law, I would not take my chances with an assisted flipper while this case is on the books. I would just assume this knife is considered a switchblade and illegal in NYS.

Which brings me to the manual flippers. Are they switchblades or gravity knives? If we believe the interpretation of the case law then would we not expect the judges in that court to have said the same thing about any flipper that could be deployed instantly? Would the spring assist even matter at that point? Is there anything that I've not seen that clarifies this?

I know my thumb stud knives would fall under the gravity knife category and I can carry those without obtaining a criminal record just for having my wire stripping tool in my pocket. I just really can't say on the manual flippers. I know the retailers will say they are completely legal in NYS. I just need help believing that.

Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AMR11]

It has been updated years ago. It all depends on where you live in NYS, NYC. You'd have to check locally. There's always been a 4" or less limit fixed or folding for the majority of NYS. Auto's "otf" they restrict to carrying on person unless you're law enforcement, military, first responder, hunting/fishing/ trapping or in general the woods. You can buy flippers pretty much in every store in my area. Even Walmart, they still sell firearms and the company is anti everything. Then vs the city you pretty much have no rights.

 

[KenHash]

"Which brings me to the manual flippers. Are they switchblades or gravity knives?"

I don't see how manual flippers can be construed as switchblades. no matter how fast they can be deployed. They are Manually opened.

I also don't see a Flipper knife as being a Gravity Knife, unless the knife opens solely by gravity or centrifugal force alone, without touching the flipper tab.

 

[SpaceVarmint]

"Which brings me to the manual flippers. Are they switchblades or gravity knives?"

I don't see how manual flippers can be construed as switchblades. no matter how fast they can be deployed. They are Manually opened.

I also don't see a Flipper knife as being a Gravity Knife, unless the knife opens solely by gravity or centrifugal force alone, without touching the flipper tab.

I completely agree with you when it comes to using common sense. One thing I've found consistent over the past few weeks of researching this is that common sense and written NY knife law rarely coexist.

My point is that most manual flippers open exactly the same as assisted flippers when you see it through the eyes of a judge that doesn't happen to be a knife person. You press the same flipper tab and get the same result. The NY courts have determined that an assisted flipper is a "switch blade knife" because you push the flipper tab and the blade pops open. The same holds true with the manual flipper as long as you intend to demonstrate it that way each time you open it. I firmly believe that those looking to arrest and prosecute will intend to demonstrate this properly.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[KenHash]

I completely agree with you when it comes to using common sense. One thing I've found consistent over the past few weeks of researching this is that common sense and written NY knife law rarely coexist.

My point is that most manual flippers open exactly the same as assisted flippers when you see it through the eyes of a judge that doesn't happen to be a knife person. You press the same flipper tab and get the same result. The NY courts have determined that an assisted flipper is a "switch blade knife" because you push the flipper tab and the blade pops open. The same holds true with the manual flipper as long as you intend to demonstrate it that way each time you open it. I firmly believe that those looking to arrest and prosecute will intend to demonstrate this properly.

I hope I am wrong.

"The New York legislature defines a switchblade knife as any knife with a blade that opens automatically by pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife."

New York State Knife Laws - KnifeUp

New York knife laws are confusing and at times appear to be contradicting. This article shows you what the nyc knife laws actually say, and ties them all

knifeup.com

By the nature of the design, I do not believe a "flipper tab" can be located in the handle. It has to be located outside of the handle to use.

That would be my layman's response to someone claiming that a manual Flipper was a "switchblade" in NY State.

Fact is that many folks carry all sorts of knives. And for the most part unless a person ends up in a situation of being questioned, or worse, arrested, the legality of a knife doesn't usually become an issue. But, if it does, I certainly would not appear in Court without the legal representation of an attorney versed in knife laws. It doesn't have to have anything to do with knives, you can easily end up with a Judge that has his own interpretation of a statute, and only a well versed attorney can help.

 

[tom19176]

After the change in the law on gravity knives becoming legal, knife only arrests have been rare. Out side NYC, they always were. I would not worry about a flipper in NYS as long as you never say it is a weapon for self defense. You seem to be the cautious type ( I know the feeling), so get a fishing license and carry a fishing hook with 30 feet of monofilament line wrapped around it inside your wallet. Then you are in possession of fishing equipment at all times. NYSPL 265.20#6 is the law stating you can carry a switchblade while fishing. Save a copy on your phone. If a judge is so inclined to include you flipper as a switchblade, then this line of thinking will most likely work. I spent years in NY law enforcement, and while you can't always avoid an arrest, simple knife possession arrests ( CPW 4 NYSPL 265.01) are often dismissed in court with a ACD if you stay out of trouble for six months....

 

[jfk1110]

I live in Staten Island and work in Manhattan daily driving a tractor trailer...... I've never been stopped or asked about a knife and for a long while.I carried my grand dads m3 knife tied to my boot.....I really didn't care at that point as I carried a gun too. Not within their rules but well within mine

Now as age has tempered me is till carry whatever I want autos included... Not that you should.
I don't clip a knife to my pockets.. That's asking for questions in NYC....My free time is spent in Lake George area and nobody looks twice at you with a fixed blade or pocket clip....

I don't prescribe to the rules for thee and not for me that the demonrats all live by here.....

In my youth I was spending more time.on the other side of the line and since my uncle was well known as the agent who locked up Sammy the bull Gravano I had a decent get out of jail free card...

I carry three knives daily. A fixed and two folders and choose which to use based upon whatever current company and surroundings dictate...

If you don't go waving your shit around like a psycho 99 times out of 100 people are oblivious to their surroundings more.so than ever...

You need to do what you're comfortable with.

 

[DMG]

It has been updated years ago. It all depends on where you live in NYS, NYC. You'd have to check locally. There's always been a 4" or less limit fixed or folding for the majority of NYS. Auto's "otf" they restrict to carrying on person unless you're law enforcement, military, first responder, hunting/fishing/ trapping or in general the woods. You can buy flippers pretty much in every store in my area. Even Walmart, they still sell firearms and the company is anti everything. Then vs the city you pretty much have no rights.
View attachment 2146501

Do they have an updated version of this map? Automatic knives are now legal in Pennsylvania

 

[AMR11]

Do they have an updated version of this map? Automatic knives are now legal in Pennsylvania

Correct they do, I should of just screenshot the current year lol

 

[DMG]

Wtf happened to North Carolina?

 

[AMR11]

Wtf happened to North Carolina?

Haha no idea. Probably voted their rights away with politicians

 

[DMG]

Haha no idea. Probably voted their rights away with politicians

We need to send Doug Ritter after them.

 

[Knife_Collector_101]

Wtf happened to North Carolina?

Nothing happened to North Carolina. It states what each color means below the map. Autos are legal to possess, sale and openly carry but not legal to carry concealed.

 

[DMG]

Nothing happened to North Carolina. It states what each color means below the map. Autos are legal to possess, sale and openly carry but not legal to carry concealed.

Do you see the differences in the 2 maps? It mat be due to the ambiguity of NC knife laws but something is different there.

Also, an automatic knife is made to be carried in your pocket, concealed. How do you not carry it concealed?

 

[Enkrig]

It seems like the NJ info is wrong. Last I checked, autos are illegal to posses in NJ. Even an assisted-opening flippers are a risky propositions. (Manual flippers could be risky too, but perhaps not as much.)

 

[nickycat]

"Which brings me to the manual flippers. Are they switchblades or gravity knives?"

I don't see how manual flippers can be construed as switchblades. no matter how fast they can be deployed. They are Manually opened.

I also don't see a Flipper knife as being a Gravity Knife, unless the knife opens solely by gravity or centrifugal force alone, without touching the flipper tab.

Doesn't matter at all if YOU can "see" how manual flipper knives are classified by the state, doesn't even matter if you FOLLOW their posted laws. In New York you are going to be at the will of the arresting officer and subsequently the assigned judge presiding over your case. Unless you are prepared for a lengthy legal battle and have many TENS of thousands of cash to spend on legal fees, I advise you to not carry any flipper in NYS and or move to a state which respects your GOD given human rights.

 

[Knife_Collector_101]

It seems like the NJ info is wrong. Last I checked, autos are illegal to posses in NJ. Even an assisted-opening flippers are a risky propositions. (Manual flippers could be risky too, but perhaps not as much.)

Autos can technically be possessed in New Jersey if you have an “explainable lawful purpose,” which is very vague. You could potentially carry one if you were an amputee with one hand. It’s really open to the interpretation of an individual officer, prosecutor or judge.

 

[KenHash]

Doesn't matter at all if YOU can "see" how manual flipper knives are classified by the state, doesn't even matter if you FOLLOW their posted laws. In New York you are going to be at the will of the arresting officer and subsequently the assigned judge presiding over your case. Unless you are prepared for a lengthy legal battle and have many TENS of thousands of cash to spend on legal fees, I advise you to not carry any flipper in NYS and or move to a state which respects your GOD given human rights.

I stated in my post that laws are subject to the interpretation of the judge, which is essentially what you are saying. And I also stated that for that reason a good attorney versed in knife laws would be needed. Which again is effectively what you are saying. The precise description of a switchblade under NYS law in pertinent to presenting a defense against charges.

Not carrying a manual flipper out of fear of legal problems would be a personal choice. If, for example people carrying manual flippers were getting arrested left and right, that would be a smart choice. But the fear of legal problems here is based on a possible legal outcome. If we consider any law on the books to be subject to interpretation, then carrying any knife would be a potential risk. Manual flipper or not.

Finally, I don't know anyone personally who moved to another state solely because of more lax knife laws.

 

[Vlade]

After the change in the law on gravity knives becoming legal, knife only arrests have been rare. Out side NYC, they always were. I would not worry about a flipper in NYS as long as you never say it is a weapon for self defense. You seem to be the cautious type ( I know the feeling), so get a fishing license and carry a fishing hook with 30 feet of monofilament line wrapped around it inside your wallet. Then you are in possession of fishing equipment at all times. NYSPL 265.20#6 is the law stating you can carry a switchblade while fishing. Save a copy on your phone. If a judge is so inclined to include you flipper as a switchblade, then this line of thinking will most likely work. I spent years in NY law enforcement, and while you can't always avoid an arrest, simple knife possession arrests ( CPW 4 NYSPL 265.01) are often dismissed in court with a ACD if you stay out of trouble for six months....

Wow we think alike. The law here is you can have any knife as long as it's used for art sport profession occupation disability or defenselessness. I keep an old fishing pole in my trunk. If they have a question I show them the fishing pole and tell them that's what I'm doing. That's it you are now excluded from the law.
.
..You have to find a loophole. If you can make a pinhole you can make it into a big pinhole and get around the law legally. But I feel bad for them guys in New York. It's ridiculous law

 

[Vlade]

Wtf happened to North Carolina?

North Carolina is another messed up place. I used to live in Hendersonville. Some of my family still lives there. But they are very restrictive so restrictive that I can't even understand what the knife laws are. I had plenty guns with no problem. But when it comes to knives it's a different story in North Carolina. I'm very confused with the laws there. When I ever do go back there. I just carry a Kershaw 3.5 in blade with the speed safe assisted opener which I'm sure is probably against the law as well. But I don't care.