Marble's knives - Still practical or outdated?

V

Vorpal Blade

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May 26, 2005
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Has anyone used these fullered Marble's knives for hunting, camping and general woodcraft? If so, what has been your experience compared to your flat or hollow ground knives?

I am thinking of getting the four and a half inch model
http://www.agrussell.com/knives/pro...arble_arms/marbles_ideal_with_maple_burl.html as a hunting knife and wilderness companion. But the fuller makes me hesitate. Does it perform well? Does it serve a significant purpose? Or is it an outdated concept which can't compete with better performing flat and hollow ground blades?
 
I personally don't have any experience with Marble's knives, so on that I can't comment. You say the fuller is what leaves you hesitant though? As I understand it, the fuller is designed to serve two purposes(excluding aesthetics ofcourse, speaking strictly functionality).

1)To remove material from the blade, therefor making it lighter. 2)To alter the geometry of the blade, in effect giving two spines where the edge bevel comes into contact with the fuller.

It's controversial to a lot of people whether or not a fuller on a relatively short blade provides any noticeable difference to the latter, but certainly removing material will make it lighter, and in that respect makes it at least "feel" stiffer compared to it's weight.

Hope some of that helps your decision making process, and I'm sure there are some others who might be able to give a more in depth explanation, if not, I'll try to elaborate on my limited knowledge of the concept. :D

Gautier
 
I prefer a flat grind but I bet quite a few deer have been skinned out with Marbles blades and I'm sure they performed just fine.
 
Marble is still making some good old designs, but they have updated their steel, which is not as good in my mind as their old carbon steel that they used back in the day.
 
I have a western knife that is a very close copy of the marbles. I like it OK I much prefer a drop point for a hunting knife, and see no reason what so ever for a "blood groove".

If you are looking for something with style that hearkens back to the good ole days then the marbles are awesome, if you are looking for function I think there are better choices. Chris
 
I know a lot of "old timers" that never carried anything but Marbles knives. I have never heard one of them complain. I have a feeling that the knife would hold up a lot better than people think. I would not be afraid to depend on it.
 
The Marble's Ideal is also the parent of the USMC K-BAR AND Pilot's Survival knife which many of us started our wood's trecking lives with and still like very much
 
found this review of a larger knife of the same style over on [outdoors magazine dot com

it may not be useful because of a different maker and different size, but it might help you.

by the way, the grind on these is a convex grind, and would benefit from proper sharpening methods. keep this in mind when comparing to your favorite grinds (sounds like you prefer flat and hollow)
 
The older marble blades are still tops in my book for hunting. The newer steel may have been a mistake for the company although the verdict is still undecided.
 
Yes these are very good knives for hunting and general utility, camping and such. But you should look around a bit and see If you can buy and old one in decent condition. It should be cheaper than one of those brand new ones and it'll probaly be already broken in for ya and have the good old steel to boot. the only problem with the old ones is that the sheaths were pretty flimsy. if the leather handle is in nice shape and the blade is mostly full it will last a long time for you described uses.
 
Not all Marble's knives had the fuller.

It was supposed to allow easier cutting of thick material (Think flesh.) because there would be less steel in contact with the material.

If the "Ka-Bar" was based on the Marbvles Ideal, they didn't understand the Marble's design concept. The fuller on the Ka-bar is in the wrong place, but it can still fulfill the functions stated by Gautier.

The Marble's fullered design was so popular that it was widely immitated.
 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for all the really great posts guys:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:. They have all helped clarify the purpose of the fuller, even in a knife as small as the model I am considering.

I have also thought about various Bark River models and Fallkniven F1 or 4" Tre Kronor variant.

It would still be interesting to hear from someon who has used Marble's 4&1/2" model extensively but the responses so far have been very helpful.
 
The fuller on the original Marbles Ideal was actually a genius marketing ploy. On a blade that small it serves no practical purpose (stiffening and lightening the blade) as fullers were/are designed for use in swords. :thumbup:


David
 
Vorpal Blade said:
Does it serve a significant purpose? Or is it an outdated concept which can't compete with better performing flat and hollow ground blades?
Click to expand...

Again I have not used this specific knife at all, but my western is a pretty dang close copy. IMO the fuller is a place for gunk to collect and serves no purpose at all. Also IMO that knife can not compete with modern flat or hollow ground blades.

There are so many knives because so many people like different things and use their tools for different purposes. With that said I like a more pronouced point without the up sweep, although it is minor on this model, still a drop point or straighter clip suits me better. When dressing large game when you are cutting around the anus and genitals a knife with a sharp point works best for me, when skinning I like some belly, I also am a big fan of carbon steel. I am a hunter and my preferences are based on what I have found to work in that capacity, the knife that I use the most is a Schrade model 13ot and it works very well for what I do with a knife.

This is not my knife but the same model.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/schrade130t.jpg

I also very much like these.
http://geneingramknives.blademakers.com/

I think marbles knives are very nice and well made but are not my first choice. It seems I am in the minority here but I use what I have found to work best for me. I would also wonder why this style of knife, Marbles ideal, was the rage at the turn of the century but has fallen out of favor. Is it a style issue, or other designs have been found to be superior, I believe it is the latter. Chris
 
simms65 said:
The fuller on the original Marbles Ideal was actually a genius marketing ploy. On a blade that small it serves no practical purpose (stiffening and lightening the blade) as fullers were/are designed for use in swords. :thumbup: David
Click to expand...
After reading all the posts and thinking some more about it, I think you are right.

runningboar said:
Again I have not used this specific knife at all, but my western is a pretty dang close copy. IMO the fuller is a place for gunk to collect and serves no purpose at all. Also IMO that knife can not compete with modern flat or hollow ground blades.
I would also wonder why this style of knife, Marbles ideal, was the rage at the turn of the century but has fallen out of favor. Is it a style issue, or other designs have been found to be superior, I believe it is the latter. Chris
Click to expand...
Well put. Thanks for the input.
 
Here's what I can add.......up until the turn of the last century, before Webster Marble introduced the Ideal pattern, typically outdoors-men/hunters carried variations of the Russell Green River knives, often called trade knives,
typically in the "butcher" and "river" patterns. They were forged from "soft" carbon steel and generally were not very thick. About 1900, Webster Marble literally "invented" a new breed of hunting knife........the Ideal. Almost immediately the American outdoors-man embraced this new design..... so much so that it became wildly popular and copied by other knife-makers. The Ideal was much thicker than those used until then, and was harder, forged from 1095 carbon steel; also the Ideal was deeply AND widely fullered. In fact if you look closely at the Ideal pattern you will see that the the fuller is extraordinarily WIDE so as to no only lighten the overall weight of the knife, but to facilitate easy cutting. In an above post Thomas Linton states insightfully :
It was supposed to allow easier cutting of thick material (Think flesh.) because there would be less steel in contact with the material.
Click to expand...
.
The key is in the width and "arrangement", if you will, of the "groove"..... and this added a new dimension of versatility to the hunting knife.

I know others will come along soon and add much more insight into this discussion. I do not have nearly the knowledge that many of you do who contribute regularly to this forum. I am learning new things from all of you all the time.

However, if you have never tried a Mike Stewart era Marble's Ideal made from 52-100 ball-bearing steel with a convex edge, I assure you the knife cuts like a laser. I believe the current crop of Marble Outdoors Ideals are made from 0170-6 (not bad steel in my opinion), and I frankly am not certain if the edge is convex ground.

All that being said....my favorite Marble's pattern is the "Woodcraft". I think these knives will do just about anything any "outdoors" knife can do...and they excel at their primary task...cutting. Here is one of mine made from 52-100 with a convex edge. The thickest part of the spine is nearly 1/4", but the convex edge is "wicked" sharp; it might be difficult to believe how sharp these knives are if you have never used one. However, if you own or have used a Bark River then you know !

67srmgy.jpg
 
I have a variety of older Marble's knives that I used over the years, several (an Ideal and a Woodcraft) that were passed on to me by my father who bought them in the late 20's or early 30's.

These knives were, and are, a pleasure to use. They take a helluvan edge and stay rust-free with a little care. The leather handles don't show their age and the sheaths have held up relatively well also. I will say that the "BIG" 8-8 1/2 inch Ideal is a tad large for many things but that was why he had the Woodcraft I suppose.

Great tools.....................

Syn
 
The only 2 Marbles I have are Sport 99 and a Woodcraft. Both are made with 52100 steel and have stag handles. Both knives are wickedly sharp and I could see no advantage of having a fuller on their blades.
I am glad I got them when 52100 was their standard steel. 0170-6 is also a very good steel but not nearly as good as the 52100.
FWIW, Becker Knife and Tool blades were mostly 0170-6 and I have yet to have any problem with any of my Beckers.

Ciao
Ron,
;) :eek:
 
I have a few Marbles in my room. Mostly the Special hunter design which are kinda hard to find. Those were made from 52-100 which is harder than Supermans doo-doo, from what I understand is ball bearing steel. With Mikes convex edge it's an awesome blade. Full tang,.250 thick, 5" blade. I managed to secure 4 full size and 1 mini which are very hard to find. 3 of them have jigged impala horn and 1 has green/brown micarta (my favorite).
 
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