Marginal Value of bade steel and handle material - Woth it? Not to me.

D

dextersp1

Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
765
+EDIT+++++READ POST #7 BEFORE RESPONDING++++I'm SORRY++++

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_value
Marginal Value is the maximum amount of one good you would give up to get one more unit of a different good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility
In economics, the marginal utility of a good or of a service is the utility of the specific use to which an agent would put a given increase in that good or service, or of the specific use that would be abandoned in response to a given decrease
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In other words how much more money would you be willing to pay for better quality or increased utility.
++++

I just received a Benchmade Mini Pika II from Thebladeshop for $24 + $6 shipping. I'm amazed at the quality that you get for the money - Sharp, great fit and finish attractive design.

This knife got me thinking about all the discussions about blade steel and handle materials and are they really worth the additional cost.

I don't know of a similarly priced knife made outside the USA with different steel (VG10, AUS8, SV30 etc or G10 scales) to compare with (if you do let me know) so, I took a look at the Benchmade Griptillans which are in the area of $76 at TheBladeshop. I find it difficult to believe that the blade material and handle materials make them THREE times or more as useful/beneficial as the mini Pika II.

Two questions:
1. Do you think that the cost difference of the blade material and/or handle material are justified versus a knife like the Pika II?* This question assumes blade steel and handle material better than the Pika II e.g. VG10, AUS8, SV30 etc or G10 scales

2. Do you know of knives similar to the Pika II in the same price range?

* I know it isn't made in the USA and the Griptillian is but, that doesn't change my question about of the cost/quality issue.

Details here:
http://www.thebladeshop.com/Benchmade_Mini_Pika_II_Black_Nylon_Handle_ComboE_p/bm10412s.htm

http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=10412

Here is a review:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523331
 
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First of all, the Griptilian is around ~$62 or so in a lot of online shops.

Secondly, the Griptilian uses the awesome axis lock design, where as the Pika II uses the traditional lockback design. The axis design blows away most other locking mechanisms from a user friendliness and ruggedness perspective.

Add that to the better blade material, US made, better ergonomics, etc... it makes sense from a price standpoint why you're see what you find. In fact, from a value perspective, the Griptilian blows away the Pika II. So you see it's not just comparing hard dollars for the blade materials, etc, but the whole picture that makes it clear why the pricing is the way it is.
 
Cost/quality vs. price/ego?

Some prefer lesser priced knives because their actual utility value is pretty high. I've got a $40 Vtech that has done very well. I'm looking a Benchmade Vex to do the same.

But when something really, really has to be cut to shreds no matter what, a Strider SnG. Admitttedly, like about 99.44% of forumites here, I carry an expensive knife because it does more than just cut better.

Expensive knife steels in good grinds will outcut cheaper ones by hundreds of slices, and stay sharper. The incremental increase is good value when you need it.

Expensive knives can also be like an expensive watch. They say something the wearer wants to be communicated. A good value cheap knife does, too - for millions of users. The expensive knife user prefers a more singular image.

Me, I wear a Timex chrono 95% of the time, and a Ti Citizen Ecodrive when I'm not working. Knives, a SnG, Buck Mayo, or the Vtech, as I feel like. I like sending out a "you need to think twice about it or make a wrong assumption" message.

Knives are a lot more like jewelry, status, and image that some like to admit.
 
Yea I agree knives can be like jewelry. I have a BM 720 Mel Pardue that I treat like jewelry. It cost me $110+ ~8-9 years ago. I know it's really capable of EDC and abuse but I treat it with a lot of care.

On the other hand, the Sebenza's can go for 2-3-4 times as much as my BM 720. While I would love to own one, I could never justify spending my own hard dollars for one, right now. If I were to win the lotto, I'm going shopping for a Sebenza. :)
 
The value of something has very little to do with the materials it is made from. A Rembrandt painting is made of canvas, a couple of wooden stretcher bars, and some oil paint. You can buy the materials a Rembrandt is made from for less than $100 at most art supply stores. Yet the real painting can be worth tens of millions of dollars.

A Ferrari and a Daewoo car are made from basically the same materials. Shouldn't the Ferrari cost the same as the Daewoo? Um, no.

If you were to take your knives and reduce them to scrap- to their raw materials, and then try to determine their value, then yes, the Griptilian wouldn't be worth twice the Pika II. But with the Griptilian, what you are paying for is the design, engineering and research that went into the lock mechanism, the blade steel, the tooling etc. You're also paying for a premium for US manufacture. If you were to make the Pika II in the US, it would be priced more closely to the Griptilian. The Griptilian is a more complex knife to make- the Pika is a straight-forward lockback design that is simply screwed together.
 
++++++ NOTE ++++
+++ I made a mistake +++
++++Let me correct it++++
++++ Forget about the Griptillian++++
++++I was wrong for mentioning it+++
+++++This is what to focus on:

1. Do you think that the cost difference of the blade material and/or handle material are justified versus a knife like the Pika II?* This question assumes blade steel and handle material better than the Pika II e.g. VG10, AUS8, SV30 etc or G10 ++++

++++All other aspects of the knives are equal+++
++++Forgive Me+++
 
I would probably pay as much as an extra $20 more for a VG10 or 3V blade but not for Aus8 which is almost a 100% premium but there is a limit where the extra money is not worth the the extra $$$$$.
But what do I know I also buy Busse's which are priced at a premium I think they are worth it, but at the same time I recognize their are less pricey knifes including Handmade that would probably meet most my humble needs. Trouble is I buy those too.:(
Thing is each of us has a price point that that we are not willing to go beyond without a lot of serious thought or need usually under $100 I don't have to think much about it IF I want it any thing over the $250 - $300 range is a long hard thinking process Which is why I don't have a Sebbie or some other high end folder.
 
I've got more knives than I'll ever need.

Some knives I use, some I use hard and many others I'll never use but I like how they look.

Most knives I buy nowadays are handmade by folks on these forums. Can I get something cheaper from China or Sweden (Mora), -yes. Does that mean I should stop supporting the "Made in USA" label as well as own things more unique than machine made? -Hell no.

Actually, my time is more valuable than cheap knives.
 
dextersp1 said:
++++++ NOTE ++++
+++ I made a mistake +++
++++Let me correct it++++
++++ Forget about the Griptillian++++
++++I was wrong for mentioning it+++
+++++This is what to focus on:

1. Do you think that the cost difference of the blade material and/or handle material are justified versus a knife like the Pika II?* This question assumes blade steel and handle material better than the Pika II e.g. VG10, AUS8, SV30 etc or G10 ++++

++++All other aspects of the knives are equal+++
++++Forgive Me+++
Click to expand...

This issue has been coverred to death. It really depends on the person. You have diminishing returns on the expensive end of knives, like most things.

Purely function wise most people only really need a Buck 110 and a Honda Civic.

But people have different priorities. Is a BMW really 3 times the car a Civic is? It certainly doesnt go 3 times as fast or use 3 times the materials. But it has a alot of other benefits. Is a Ferrari really 3 times what a BMW M5 is? Probably not, but to most millionairs or billionaires it doesnt really matter.

$20 more for a different steel could represent peanuts to someone or a huge percentage of their available funds.

Theres also the intangables... the feeling you get from an extremely well made watch or car or knife or a Rembrandt. (Which also brings into play pride of ownership, investment and collectabiltiy benefits.)

I know somone who owns a Rembrandt, I sure wouldnt spend $500,000 on it... (there was some doubt if it was him or a students.). They own million dollar Ferraris... I probably wouldnt pay that much for a car. But they'd never pay $300 for a pocket knife like my Seb.

This thread ought to be locked... because this issue will never ever get settled. No offense...
 
Depends on what you like and what you enjoy.
Examples - had to replace A/C and Heat in my house this year.
Some estimates came in around 3k and some at over 10K. I based my decision on "the sweet spot" I could have gone for 3k, but for 6k I got a system that was very efficient and above that the increase in efficiency was incremental compared to the increase in price. My A/C bills this summer were a tad less than 1/2 of what they were last year and I kept the house a little cooler. I will save the extra 3k I spent in 4 years and the system is fully under warranty for 10.

- vehicles. Never did anything for me. I drive a 12 year old Buick. Brought it new and never made payments on it. I personally do not believe in paying interest on anything short of an investment where I can recoup the cost of the interest. I own a bunch of knives that are individually worth more than the vehicle I drive. I enjoy owning them (the knives). The vehicle has been pretty dependable and has not gotten to the point where maintenance is an issue. The AC and heater work, it gets me where I want to go without problems.

- knives. Let's be honest here. There are few of us that need knives that run say more than 50 bucks at the most. A Kabar from the Army/Navy store and a sodbuster would fill our needs and those of other generations that follow us. Odds are very high that any of us will ever need to use a knife in self defense. We just enjoy using and owning nice knives. Other people may enjoy clothes, cars, paintings, sculpture or you name it.

There are those of us who enjoy custom knives for various reasons. Some may spend thousands on an individual knife, because they enjoy it when they could easily have gotten by with spending 15 bucks on a SAK that can handle cutting as well as the 3 thousand dollar knife.

There is a guy I worked with for a while that was a potter as a hobby. He makes some beautiful stoneware. I could get buy with a few cheap mugs, but I enjoy using his.

A decent knife should last decades. If someone enjoys what might amount to a few quarters a week during the lifetime of the knife and they enjoy it, I think it is money well spent for them.
 
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