Mariners Knives

H

Hesparus

Joined
Oct 31, 2004
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I've been designing some mariners knives lately and I've been thinking about some logistical issues. My first quandry is about the sheath. The sailors I've hung out with carry their knife and spike in a leather sheath. This always confused me because they're around water all the time and that's not only bad for the leather but bad for the blade to be wet all the time (especially with salt water). So how about a kydex sheath? As long as it had drain holes I can't see why it wouldn't be better than leather. Second, what does a "shackle key" do? I've seen them on several mariners knives but I've never met anyone who has one. Last, what's the best steel for this? Obviously corrosion resistance is the most important feature for a knife that's going to be sitting in salt water all day. 440c has three percents more chromium than 154cm or ats34 but it's slightly inferior as a steel. Is that little bit of extra chromium going to help it resist rusting? How do you feel about 440c in general? I have made some knives with it and I figure it's a good enough steel for most days but is there anything that it does better than anything else?

- Chris
 
With a name like Hesparus ,the famous story of a ship by that name that was wrecked, you should know something about ships.A shackle key [do search on 'shackle'] unscrews the pin from a shackle.Any of the 440c, 154cm,S30V would do well. Are you talking about a folding knife or fixed blade with separate marlin spike ? I would prefer a Kydex sheath.
 
Chris: Where in New England do you live??? If you are near me come on down. We can do up some Damascus. Have you checkout the NECKA site?? We have Hammer-Ins a couple of times a year. :D
 
I actually do know a lot about ships. I've sailed all manner of sail boats, I can tie close to 80 knots, I know the difference between a peak halyard and a throat halyard, and I don't get seasick. I just don't know what the heck a shackle key is for, other than for shackles. If that were the only use for them, I wouldn't still see them on modern mariners knives (such as David Boye's). I am talking about fixed blade knives with the marling spike in the same sheath.
I live near Peterborough New Hampshire, about equal distance from keene, concord, and manchester. I'm not familiar with NECKA, but I'll look into it.

- Chris
 
Chris; On Saturdays I usaully have a few of the NECKA members over. Feel free to come on down anytime.
 
Just one comment, I'd go with S30V, and stay away from 154CM and ATS34, they are barely on the stainless side and I've seen Benchmades rust up out here. The rust was on folders and was very miner pitting, and the guys thought stainless ment "rust proff". With just minor care ATS34 and 154CM will do fine, and are great blade steels, just make sure the user knowes there not rust proff!
 
Chris,
You live near Knifemakers Kelly Carlson and Howard Hitichmough, both well known makers. A shackle key also makes a handy bottle opener!
 
Indian George: Thanks for the invite. I'd love to make it up there sometime. You wouldn't happen to be going to the NCCA show next week, would you?
Will52100: S30V seems to have 14% chromium just like 154cm and ats34. Did you mean S60V? With the 2+% carbon, it seems like it'd be a PITA to work with. Any idea where to get some?
Striper28: I have met Howard Hitchmough, he's a really neat guy. Is Kelly Carson the one who makes the damascus I've been hearing about?

- Chris
 
There is more to it than only the content of chromium. As an example, the *temperature of tempering some stainless can play a large part in corrosion resistance. There is nothing, to me, imperative about whether it be stainless or not so long as proper care is expendended. I would first consider the usage and then consider whether a particular stainless would best be suited, as opposed to a good high carbon (does the usage require flexing of the blade, etc. and so on).

*:many temper ATS-34 and its cousin steels at high enough a temperature to comprimise corrosion resistance. I never temper ATS-34 above 600 F. and that may be high enough to cause some sacrifice. For our purposes CPM S30V can easily be tempered closer to the 400 F range with great resistance to corrosion retained. Some stainless steels such as BG-42 and CPM 3V, as an example, are tempered in the 1000 F range and should be because that is the only good vendor recommendation. Except for examples such as those it is usually recommended, once again for our purposes, not to temper stainless so high. Alot of ATS-34 blades are tempered in the 900 F range. Doing so comprimises corrosion resistance.

RL
 
I had no idea that tempering had anything to do with corrosion resistance. I really only know enough about metallurgy to be able to put my foot in my mouth.

- Chris
 
Well now do not be so hard on yourself. I, in my beginning, tempered ATS-34 at the higher temperatures. Kit Carson, our very own Kit Carson, taught me otherwise and the reason for that. He was correct in his direction for me. Look at vendor data sheets. Study them and practice them. The vendor data sheets sometimes refer to that also

Currently, to my knowledge, cousins to the Japanese ATS-34 include the United States version 154CM and the Swedish (partical version) RWL-34, and a hopefully prospective new partical version from Crucible (makers of 154CM).

RL
 
Spyderco has a model out called the Pacific Salt. It is supposed to be very corrosion resistant. As long as the user carries out perfunctory care it should be fine in any environment.

The material used is called H1, its made in Japan.

*Blurb

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=128

I live in Japan, I dont know if you guys can get it there, but I reckon it will be very difficult to source it here. I can try though if you really must have it and no one in the US sells it.
 
Hesparus said:
Indian George: Thanks for the invite. I'd love to make it up there sometime. You wouldn't happen to be going to the NCCA show next week, would you?
Will52100: S30V seems to have 14% chromium just like 154cm and ats34. Did you mean S60V? With the 2+% carbon, it seems like it'd be a PITA to work with. Any idea where to get some?
Striper28: I have met Howard Hitchmough, he's a really neat guy. Is Kelly Carson the one who makes the damascus I've been hearing about?

- Chris
Click to expand...
I hope to make it. But my Lady's PCA just gave her notice, I may not have anyone to stay with her. We (NECKA) have a table at all the Marlboro shows. Walk in the door take a left we are at the end of the aisle. :D
 
You guys have any plans or pics of the knives your talking about? I am interested in making my father in law something like this for the hollidays.
I was thinking folder but the fixed set sounds nice too.
Thanks
Mace
 
Roger beat me too it, a lot of ATS-34 is tempered in the 900 deg. range which makes it less corosion resistant than S30V tempered at a lower temp. ATS-34 will make an excelent knife tempered at 900 deg., just make sure that the end user know that stainless does not mean rust free and requires at least a minimum of care, and that goes for all knife steels. I've carried a forged blade and a damascus knife off shore and they only had a little discoleration because I took care to keep them wiped down and dry after using. If you want a blade steel that won't rust try talonite, it will not rust short of an acid from what I understand, though it is hard to work and the edge will roll if it hits anything hard.

I get my S30V directly from Crucible. I haven't found it anymore difficult to work than ATS-34 in the anealed state, though hardened it's a pain to finish out.
 
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