Martindale machetes : performance questions

Cliff Stamp · Mar 20, 2002

Specifically I am looking for information on the three blades shown here :

http://www.cutsforthknives.com/cutsforth_knives_martindale_machete_005.htm

I have scanned past posts in this forum, and am looking for additional comments on these issues :

Heavy wood chopping, specifically wedging/binding. Do these knives have primary grinds or are they just flat? If it is the latter do they stick badly in thick hardwoods, compared to say an Ontario 12" machete and a GB hatchet, which are at the two opposite ends of the spectrum. What about raw cutting power as opposed to these two, both for chopping as well as whittling and misc. cutting in general.

Edge durability in regards to knots. Mainly in regards to chopping wood, but also for splitting, especially for the Paratrooper for the latter. What about bone chopping? How bad does the edge get tore up for digging?

Edge geometry NIB, angle , thickness?. Some speak highly, others poorly (tree beaters). Has the QC changed lately or is this just a case of some getting good ones and some getting the shaft. Similar question in regards to the handles, do they need to be rasped to shape NIB?

Lastly, flex, are these spring tempered or do they take a set really easily?

Any comments on the basic designs compared to each other, advantages/drawnbacks, would also be appreciated. As would a direct comparison of either against a traditional machete from Ontatio or say the Patrol Machete from Camillus, or even a decent 10" class bush blade of which there are many.

-Cliff

alco141 · Mar 20, 2002

cliff,
i have the paratrooper knife and the jungle knife, i have only chopped a few things as these were purchased in winter, what kind of tests would you like me to try, i also have a ontario machete and a G-B hunters axe. so i could try a few things for you and let you know how they worked.

alex

GREENJACKET · Mar 21, 2002

Here is a start though more of a generalisation:

They are cost effective for military and humanitary operations when quantity and function are your main concern. You can buy a lot of them and they will do the job. Stamped out of steel sheet with a flat primary grind. As basic as you can get. Some springiness and not very hard, but however battered will remain functional. Stiff enough to dig with.

The Jungle blade is the new kid on the block. I think inspired by the British jungle training cadre. It may look odd but, so I've been told, is very energy efficient for work in jungle. Can even be used as a paddle. Don't own one so cannot add more.

The Golock is the mainstay chopper, tree whacker, of the British Army. Its not heavy so no chore to carry. When you need a whacker its there. Takes quite a lot of work to get a better edge and doesn't hold it particulary well; but then who cares, brawn over brains. Shrugs off damage so long as you don't want to shave with it.

Paratrooper, had one didn't like it. The article in Blade? was weak. This knife is not one thing or another: not big/long enough for chopping and bulky for medium blade work. Out of the box it is horrible and needs some work to make it anything. I didn't like mine and got rid of it fast.

The handles need some wear to be comfortable. After some use they are great. I don't know why but of the hundreds I've seen I've never seen one bust to the point it wasn't useable.

For the money and what they are intended for they rank with SAK or Opinel. You have to go a hell of a way to find something better. I'd be interested at people's comments on the rest of the range, the parangs, machete and cane cutters.

chad234 · Mar 21, 2002

Cliff,
I have an interest in the Golok model. I am waiting for V-Shrake to get his, and compare it to his ontario 12" before I buy one. Incidently he ordered from the Cutsforth as well.

My intuition is that it is a lower carbon, softer steel that will easily deform. I really like the blade design though, and it certainly has been used enough to prove its worth, Ray Mears has used one to good effect.

I like handle design better than the Ontario, especially after it has been sanded and tung oiled instead of varnished.....

I am looking forward to you review as well, particularly as it compares to the BK&T Patrol Machete as it is another knife that I have a strong interest in.....

Stay sharp,
Chad

Bill Siegle · Mar 22, 2002

I used the Golok a few weeks back and it cut weekends worth of wood and never gave me any problems. The edge is still sharp enough to worry about cutting yourself and there is no edge damage to report. It did stick in some thick wood a couple times but that is to be expected from a thinner blade. It easily came out with no set from flexing. I did hit the handle with a file before I left but I'm a custom knifemaker...I can't leave anything "stock". My Golok ame from Darren Cutsforth and had an awesome edge grind. I don't know if he special orders them like that or not but I have seen virtually un sharpened examples in the past. For a real workhorse they're worth every penny

Cliff Stamp · Mar 23, 2002

Alex, I would be very interested in your thoughts on the GB hunters axe and Ontario machete vs the Jungle knife. Nothing complicated, just the felling, limbing and bucking of small to medium sticks (say two to six inches), and some other light brush work with the two knives.

Chad :

My intuition is that it is a lower carbon, softer steel that will easily deform

Yes, I doubt that this is a high quality tool steel. Does anyone know any specifics on materials, hardness or heat treatment? As Greenjacket noted however, this will make them very durable, and of course easy to repair with a file.

I really like the blade design

Yes, it looks to have enough/drop curve to enhance a lot of brush work, without being too much to interfere with thick wood. The handle strikes me as having an obvious large problem though as you can't snap off the end because it is too abrupt. The end-hook should be more gradual like on the Jungle knife , this of course is the traditional axe handle end-knob.

Bill, thanks for the details. How would you compare the Golok to your Knax and your 11" camp knife :

http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives/

It is very nice by the way, to see someone break the 10" barrier on a heavier use wood working blade.

Greenjacket :

Stamped out of steel sheet with a flat primary grind

That is unfortunate, but expected, maybe the distal taper will help a little in binding, however I don't think so. It does however allow them to be stronger than 1/8" machetes of the same weight, which is a good thing, and as well have more of a versatile nature as you have a thick and stiff region near the handle for heavy and dense woods and a much thinner one near the tip for light vegetation.

The handles need some wear to be comfortable.

Yes, on most lower end production, I usually take a rasp to the handles to remove excess material as well as round out sharp edges. This only takes a few mintues and leaves the handle with a very secure finish.

You have to go a hell of a way to find something better.

The Golok for example is $40 in the above link. That is more than twice that of an 18" Ontario machete. However you are getting a cordura sheath and a file. What is the bare cost of the Golok? In any case I can't see it coming in at under the Ontario 12", but it does look to have some advantages geometry wise. The Jungle knife I would pay the extra $20 for, as it has a number of advantages do the shape and more significant taper. The only thing that strikes me as problematic is that the tip might be too thin for harder woods.

-Cliff

Bill Siegle · Mar 23, 2002

the Golok, Knax, and 11in Camp are all different beasts. The Knax being a pointed hatchet and the 11in camp is a real heavyweight knife. All will definitly get the job done but they have different strong points. The knax is for the guy who prefers a hatchet to a knife. The 11in camp is for the guy looking for brute strength with no worries over weight. The golok fits better for those whose purposes are better served by a machete ie trail clearing on the move.
If I was breaking up stumps I would chose the 11in camp. splittin up camp wood the knax would shine. Cutting your way through rasberry vines the golok will simply amaze you. Hope this helps.

GREENJACKET · Mar 23, 2002

Company web site: www.ralphmartindale.co.uk

Check out the different designes. Some of the blades can sing; so I think they temper depending on the intended use. Send them an email they might oblidge?? Trade price is less than $20, so I guess manufacturing costs must be about $10; which is a whole lot more than other low buck brands.

alco141 · May 7, 2002

cliff,
i took the jungle knife out to clean up some of the suckers on a crab apple tree, something i did not think would be too difficult for thei knife. after about 20 min work cutting 1/2" to 1 1/2' woody stems, the edge of the jungle knife looked like it was serrated, it had so many chips and rollovers. i was seriously dismayed at this performance by this martindale machete. i would not have thought that this would do this poorly. i think a ontario machete would have held up better.

alex

sgtmike88 · May 7, 2002

My girlfriend and I recently bought a house that hadn't been lived in for over 2 years. The side yard was so plugged with overgrowth that it was as impassable as a Vietnamese jungle on a bad day. Additionally, there were 8 huge cedars and about 50 1" maple saplings to down, cut to size or limb. My primary tools for the job were a 22" Ontario machete, am Ontario SP5 and a Snow & Nealley Hudson Bay kindling axe, however, I ordered and received a Martindale Golok from Daren before the job was finished. The Golok, therefore, went head to head against the Ontarios.

The Golok came with a decent edge, but a very rudimentary handle which I've subsequently sanded down and oiled. The Golok simply outperformed the Ontario's factory edge to factory edge. When cutting free standing brush up to 1" diameter, a simple swing with the Golok would cleanly cut huge swaths in comparison to the 22" Ontario which would easily bind or deflect. (The Ontario's D shaped hand guard actually caused a fracture to the little finger on my right hand. It has since healed and the D shaped guard has been removed.) The Golok, when it was time to sharpen, came back to life in minutes, whereas it took me hours to bring back the Ontario. The little file that came with the Golok is a great tool. The Ontarios would bind in cedar limbing, while the Golok sailed through with it's seemingly sly grinning blade. The Golok finished the jobs at hand.

The Golok has a carbon steel blade, hardened to around 48RC, so it has some good flex. It sharpens easily. Once a good feather is created on the edge, I used the edge of the file to steel the Golok's edge. It will shave hair. It would take some serious abusive digging and prying to bend this blade to take a set - the blade is thicker than the Ontario machete, yet it thins out nicely at the tip to allow for a fine cutting edge if you need it.

I've yet to baton this blade, but that'll come in a few weeks during our first camp of the season. The Golok will be there - it's replaced the Ontario SP5 on my BOB.

BTW ... I just looked at Daren's site and see the golok listed at $30. Well worth it when you consider that's with the file and a sheath which has a pouch for the file, too.

Mike

Cliff Stamp · May 8, 2002

Alex, I have been using a Jungle Knife for some time. It doesn't surprise me that you had visible edge damage doing the work you did if your blade had an edge like mine. The edge on the blade I have started off at ~18 degrees per side near the base, and dropped smoothly as it ran toward the tip, ending at ~6 degree per side, very acute and thus easily damaged unless you are cutting very soft vegetation or very thick clean wood. I reprofiled the edge, brought the angle up to 11-13 degrees per side near the tip and with this profile it can handle light limbing with no problems. For harder hacking on ingrown or very hard woods you will need to go higher still. Of course if the edge on yours was more obtuse and you got damaged then there was likely a problem with the steel or hardening.

Mike :

The Golok simply outperformed the Ontario's factory edge to factory edge.

That is fairly impressive when you consider the relative size of the blades. Do you have any intention of putting a better profile on the edge of the Ontario?

-Cliff

sgtmike88 · May 8, 2002

Cliff,

I'm reprofiling challenged, but absolutely yes, I do plan on putting a better edge on the Ontario. Ontario's steel is so much better, with a decent bevel I can't imagine much of anything outperforming it.
Fortunately, I live close enough to the factory where i can drive over and probably get them to finish the job for me. I do plan on going there fairly soon with the golok to see if I can persuade them into making one with their .125" 1095 and their new moulded handle sans that dam* D guard. If not, I'll just come home with an RTAK

Mike

frank k · May 8, 2002

sgtMike,
Glad to hear Ontario is going to a molded handle, do you know where there might be some pics? I just checked Ontario's site, and it seems to be under construction.
Another question, how has your golok's edge held up in terms of rolling, chipping, denting and such? Thanks.

sgtmike88 · May 9, 2002

Frank,

I don't have any pics, sorry. This is new, it just came from the company that moulds them on for Ontario. Mine was a second and QC must be really high because I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I did remove the dam* D guard after it bit my finger.

In as far as the Golok, the blade hasn't chipped and I had one minor rollover from hitting a pebble. The rollover came right off with the supplied file and the blade will shave hair. The file has been the best part of the purchase for me, it worked great in restoring the edge on my cheapie Vermont American USGI hatchet, my Snow & Nealley Hudson Bay kindling axe and both machetes. Well, maybe not, that golok is just too cool and too effective.

Mike

frank k · May 9, 2002

Sgt Mike,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like your Golok is doing a bit better than my CS Panga interms of edge rolling and chipping on hardwood, allthough, I also get some damage to my Ontario GI/D-guard model. Both are sharpened to about 35-40 degees included, maybe I need to play with the bevels and/or work on my technique!