MASSIVE Greco blade failure

L

Lavan

Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
2,301
Ain't a-gonna tellya what I was doin as it qualifies as MAJOR ABUSE. Well, it entailed FLINGIN it on the floor. However, the blade went one way and the handle the other. Ever since I got it, I was a bit concerned about the way the blade was ground for the guard. Completely square and looked like a classic "stress riser." Could also be from the obvious pounding it got to put the guard on in the first place. That was why the blade (new) was covered with gouges from putting it in a vise to pound on the guard.

Busted off and left a crystalline appearance that looked like a cup handle from China. REALLY brittle! In a way, it made it easier to chuck it knowing it was that weak. I have NEVER seen a knife SNAP and twang across a room before.

I am only buying FACTORY fixed blades (if I even GET another) as I would like to have some QC in the heat treat or the assembly.

I almost think that for FIXED blades, I'm better off with cheapies.

:eek:
 
Lavan said:
I am only buying FACTORY fixed blades (if I even GET another) as I would like to have some QC in the heat treat or the assembly.
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Heat treat QC as in hardening them by the dozen? I'm not saying that all production knife manufacturers treat their blades improperly, but guess who'll give your knife more attention: a custom maker who spent hours grinding it or the employees of a company that puts out thousands of knives per day?

Getting a professionally HTed knife is one of the many reasons why I prefer customs.
 
No "hours" were spent grinding this one. I really should have returned it when I got it as the grinds were not what one should expect from a custom. One side was sort of in two diffenent planes from uneven application of the belt. Course, this was during his illness period also.

In any event, I have never seen a hardware store knife snap. Bend, maybe but not fracture into crystalline powdery surface.
 
You really think that the factory boys are more reliable? Those large batches make the ends of the batch hot and the middle of the batch cold. Keep in mind that you can always adjust a temper that is too hard. You just do a file test. If a file won't cut your edge the way that you expect, very little for a hard blade and fairly well for a tough blade, then you throw it in the kitchen oven for a while. Of course you have to pull off any handle material that won't take heat, but this works for most alloys. You do a search on the shop talk forum for your alloy to decide on a temperature to try and you try baking your blade for one hour increments. Last night I baked a file that I want to work on. This one was probably 1095 and with a 2 hour bake at 375 it got down to a reasonable hardness.
 
Lavan, did you contact John about this? I'm sure he will make this right if he knows about the problem.
Scott
 
Quiet Storm said:
...guess who'll give your knife more attention: a custom maker who spent hours grinding it or the employees of a company that puts out thousands of knives per day?.
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This really depends on the individuals involved, there are custom makers who do no R&D or QC checks and there are production companies that do a lot. Just ask them, it isn't hard to find out who does it and who doesn't.

Lavan said:
Ain't a-gonna tellya what I was doin as it qualifies as MAJOR ABUSE. Well, it entailed FLINGIN it on the floor.
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It this something really light like a fillet blade?

Busted off and left a crystalline appearance that looked like a cup handle from China.
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That would be more of a problem than the grind. Doesn't matter how it broke then, that sounds like a materials flaw.


-Cliff
 
Jeff Clark said:
This one was probably 1095 and with a 2 hour bake at 375 it got down to a reasonable hardness.
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Most of Mr. Greco's knives are made from 8670-modified, a bandsaw steel.

Sorry you got a flawed knife, Lavan. That's always rough.

Cliff,

From the description of the guard, it sounds like a Scagel replica.
 
thombrogan. Yep a Scagel repro. One of the first. What I did I would never ask John to correct. I should learn to control my temper a whole lot better. But it was the extent of the break that amazed me.
I sort of expected a really bad whack on it, but it came apart.
And it's now where it can't even be recovered.

Ahhh, knives.

I promise to be better next time.
:)
 
Sounds like we don't even need to call mete in from the description of the china cup handle look of the break,crystalline.Would be cool to hear from him though if he's around.
Scott's right.John will take care of it.Doug. :)
 
I had the exact same thing happen to a CS Ghurka Kukri (crystalline break). It was a second, which they say they don't take returns on. I sent it back to them with a letter and they replaced it, no questions asked. It is not a problem with heat treat or grind when that type of break occurs but as Cliff stated, faulty materials. Really no way to know about it until something like that happens and it's not very common.

From my experiences with John I would be willing to bet he'd make it right.

Peace-
Cam
 
Lavan, I think it's reasonable in this case to return the knife. After all, as you have said yourself, if it weren't for the stress riser and brittle steel, your knife would still be in one piece. Just my $.02
 
I'm with Walking Man on this one.

Walking Man,

You made a great post over at the poliforum and fled. That's kind of un-Laotian, dude. ;)
 
'Crystalline ' ?? Well all metals are crystalline !!! 'Cup handle from China' ?? What kind , common pottery or fine porcelain ?? The question is, is it fine or coarse grained . Sounds like you should have contacted the maker immediately [ 'gouges from --a vise' ]. How about a good photo of the fracture surface ?
 
I'd contact John at least and see what he has to say. Tell him what you did and leave it up to him as to what to do. He will probably want to see the knife.
 
thombrogan said:
You made a great post over at the poliforum and fled. That's kind of un-Laotian, dude. ;)
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Uh, it was taking it's own course, and I didn't think my participation was needed any longer to get it moving, so I just stopping reading. I'll take a peek.
 
OK, I dug it out. This is the break. John has offered a discount on a new one. Still deciding. It still looks like the method of manufacture resulting in a stress riser. The vise marks were apparently on the first Scagels he did as he told me it was from before he had the guard attachment down pat. Blade in vise slipped as guard driven on.

I had no business abusing it as I did. However, the break makes me leery of the style in general. May be only one. May be all. I know I would never mistreat another so badly. But I may still be better served by a mass produced fixed blade stainless springy beater.

knifebreak4wt.jpg
 
John did the ethical thing . From the photo it doesn't seem to be very large grain size so I think [without detailed examination] that it's mostly a design problem.
 
Lavan said:
I had no business abusing it as I did. However, the break makes me leery of the style in general.
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I drove my car at 200MPH into a brick wall and the headlight broke, I shouldn't have done it, but I'm leary of plastic lights now.

You said yourself that you shouldn't have done what you did to the knife (FYI Knives are for cutting with) then you post about it like its some kind of revelation? Are you on Crack?

Sorry to be the party pooper here, but JFC what did you expect to happen if you grossly abuse something?
 
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