Master Kami Designation

F

French

Joined
Aug 14, 2015
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6
My second post and first thread-starter so hopefully I will get this right. Have been reading and re-reading everything I can fin on Himalayan Imports, truly a unique company. While I personally would term every kami that can turn out a quality Khukuri a master kami, I know that this is not the case, although to now I have been unable to find what tests, certifications, may be used to designate a kami at this level, other than it seems that he has to have 20-plus years experience (but longevity is probably not the defining criteria, I would think.)

Here is a list of kamis, who have at one point worked for a fairly long time for HI, gleaned from the HI website and your posts from over the years; apologize up front for undoubtedly missing some. I am sure that many of them are indeed Master Kami. Appreciate any corrections, additions and who should be on the Master Kami list. (info in brackets show town/city where individual was from)

Sincerely, French


The Royal Kami Lal Bahadur Bishwakarma (“Bura”)
Master Kami Kumar Bishwakarma (Dharan)
Master Kami Nara Bishwakarma
Master Kami Raj Kumar
Bhakta
Dhan
Durba
Ganga Kami (Dharan)
Hari
Kesar Lal Bishwakarma
Kumar Bishwakarma (Diktel Bazar)
Lachhu
Lokendra
Murali Dhar Bishwakarma
Padam
Pala
Prakash Bishwakarma
Puma
Purna Kami (Dharan)
Samsher
Sanu Bishwakarma
Shankar Bishwakarma
Sher Bahadur Bishwakarma
Sgt. Khadka
Thamar Bahadur
Tilak Bishwakarma (Diktel Bazar)
Tirtha
Vim
Yuvraj
 
Personally I think your way way overthinking it.

Hide your union card, things are completely different over there.

Your right in that all the kamis working for HI probably qualify as master kamis but I don't think there is any testing or certification process, it's an ancient father to son type of thing.

If their quality meets Pala and Auntie's extremely high standards they are good to go.
 
What Mr. B said, they are all Master Kami's, otherwise, HI wouldn't be using them. They each have their own styles, so much so, that some forumites can tell which kami produced what blade by just looking at a photo.
 
It is a very interesting topic though. I was reading all the online info the other day and was amazed. Im guessing that no, no Union or otherwise, their process is more demanding than Union girls could withstand.

I enjoyed reading about it and learning of this fascinating sub-culture in Nepal.
 
Not to mention the Master designation there often part of peer recognition both of talent and authority to teach and be listened to with humility...
 
You all are probably correct; it wouldn't be the first time I overthought some question! What started me thinking was reading what Bill had said/wrote a number of years ago that included, "...our master kamis are old and when we go so will Himalayan Imports."

So I began to wonder how they recruited new talent and did that new talent have to already be master kamis, or was there some sort of hiring young craftsmen that had enormous upside that indicated they would become master kamis? And perhaps those individuals "worked their way up" over the years. Or were all the master kamis at HI really old, which meant that the younger guys were not master kamis yet?

Clearly, HI is talent based, not longevity ala many unions. And just as clearly, becoming a master kami, whatever that "coronation" actually is, is something desirable. I think Bill understood that as much as when he began having the Khukuri-maker put his mark or initials on each blade -- a pride of workmanship thing.

I agree, every Khukuri pictured looks like a work of art to me; what would really be interesting is to hear a discussion of the master kamis on the latest submission of a "newbie" who had a ton of talent but that they didn't want to get a big head!
 
I really do believe there was a "Master" Kami designation based on time apprentice etc. but like the others say it probably is not like it used to be since the royalty status has changed with the new governance. A description of this is in the HI website somewhere. I remember reading it but I cant seem to find it at the moment. Ill keep looking and post it if I can find it.
 
Many of the current kami's worked or apprenticed under some of the old master kami's. In that respect I believe you are quite correct.

Some worked under Bura, truly a master if there ever was one.

I'm sure there is still a food chain or a hierarchy as it were, but again things are different there and times change too.

I hope they don't change too much myself, I think they do a pretty darn good job as it's going.
 
There are a few photos in the Stickies that show young men working in the shop, so we know they're not all Masters yet. Being a Master myself, I can almost guarantee that there is more to their status attainment than just title. Many of those kamis are great "Journeymen" but it will be a while before they attain Master.
 
One thing is clear, they go head-hunting/talent-scouting to different cities/towns/provinces, looking for excellent craftsmen who can work within their system and who also appreciate the many HI perks unavailable to independents, and the perks are manifold, such as the recent earthquake disaster showed...none of them lacked long for anything with the resources poured their way....i DO know the term Master would be rather loose-ended in such widely varying cultures as Nepal boasts and can be freely bestowed in many circumstances by general agreement of both peers and customers/employers and even selves....and not stick at all if unwarranted in any of those cases....a Master at anything is obvious across all cultural and even time boundaries....if a kami is called a Master in Nepal, it would be for good reason, by the fruits of his labors you would know him.....Bill broke it down fairly well in his post on a visit to a village kami and described well the typical path to being a Master.....time....and ability developed over that time.....samewise a Master Smith in our own country 150 years ago....the man who could make or mend anything....
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/kami.html
 
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Did a little searching, and found that the following kami's were previously Bura's helpers (this list is not complete):

Thamar
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1205194-New-Kami-Thamar-Bahadur-Dui-Chirra-for-7-30?p=13799164&highlight=bura%27s+helper#post13799164

Lachhu
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/903120-Lachhu-Kami-s-YCS-for-11-28?p=10231978#post10231978

Padam
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1185740-Brand-New-Padam-Suga-Knife?p=13582852&highlight=bura%27s+helper#post13582852

Vim
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/394055-Deals-for-3-13-Pix-Bhutan-Sword-and-more-great-buys?p=3619771#post3619771

Shaila
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/572852-14-quot-Trisul-or-The-Nepali-Boot-Knife?p=5841039&highlight=bura%27s+helper#post5841039

Saddhu
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/234448-A-few-kami-pix-few!!!?p=1933612&highlight=bura%27s+helper#post1933612
 
Bookie said:
There are a few photos in the Stickies that show young men working in the shop, so we know they're not all Masters yet. Being a Master myself, I can almost guarantee that there is more to their status attainment than just title. Many of those kamis are great "Journeymen" but it will be a while before they attain Master.
Click to expand...

ABS Master Smith?
 
I believe Mtngunr is accurate. I Also know that HI has a bit more structure than many Nepali Smithies these days, so I am guessing that most of the Kamis currently working for HI are less formally designated as apprentice/journeyman/master but still employ some semblence of that ranking amongst themselves even if there isn't a formal registration of their expertise
 
Pala or Yangdu could clarify but I've heard there is a definite pecking order. Like getting the corner office in your prestigious neck tie workplace, they get the coveted favorite floor space to work their magic.

Seem to recall that Bura had his own preferred corner and nobody took up residence in that area.

It'll be interesting to see what goes on after Pala gets there. I heard that Kumar was coming back and going to make knives again for HI and now Cul says Purna is coming back so should be very good.
I hope they work out something where they stay for a long time and don't wander off again.
 
Oh man stwm, it is so over for you dude. You can't take something like that back.

Guess there will be no need to return your knife, you'll be too busy dealing with the doll effect.

Sorry man.
 
Yes, I've been well taught. Was married to the devil's sister for 13-14 years. Oh! The things I know!
 
Heard you had quite a taste for chickens too. I got nothing to back that up with though, just rumors.
 
time for an anecdote:

went to inspect a T2 tanker one day in the late '60's at a shipyard/dockyard. one test we did was to over-speed the steam powered generators. they are supposed to trip out at a designed percentage over 100%. one didn't.

they had to call the shipyard for a mechanic (union shop, crew couldn't do anything, they were union also, a different one). the apprentice mechanic showed up, ahemmed and ahawed while inspecting the speed governor, ran up the speed to confirm it didn't trip. said he couldn't take the cover off. we needed a journeyman mechanic to do that. they called for the journeyman. he arrived. now we had a journeyman AND apprentice charging their time from when they were initially called. journeyman took the cover off, ahemmed and ahawed, again ran it up to confirm it didn't trip. finally said we'd need a master mechanic to turn the adjustment screw. they called. master arrives. now we have the master, journeyman, and apprentice charging the ship owners. he again ran the speed up, it of course didn't trip. he ahemmed and ahawed, took out his magic master's screwdriver (same as the apprentice and journyman's), handed it to the journyman and told him to turn the adjustment screw. he handed it to the apprentice and told him to turn the adjustment screw. the apprentice turned the screw out 1/4 turn. they tested the trip again. it worked properly. the master took back his screwdriver. the journeyman put the cover back on, supervised by the master, the apprentice looked on, learning, pleased he was one more step closer to being a journeyman. the master, journeyman, and apprentice went away happy. the owner less so. he had to pay the three of them till they got back to their shop.

i also was a licence examiner for a while. one of the questions on the engr's exam is to draw a speed governor. questions are drawn from a pool to randomize the test. i got that one when i took my exam to be a 3rd asst. engr. as part of my degree requirement at suny maritime college. i could have drawn the speed governor and adjuster in my sleep, as could the chief, 2nd and 3rd asst. engr's from the crew. they could not touch it in port. i could not touch it, being govt. & we could not be in a position of liability, let alone violate the union hierarchy.

end of anecdote.

the HI shop is thankfully NOT union.
 
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