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Material vs. treatment
- Thread starter Don G
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 12, 1999
- Messages
- 1,110
it all depends on the knife your making, but it must be heat treated well, best by a proffesional, and the grind must be even. what type of knife do you have in mind?
[This message has been edited by magnum .44 (edited 17 September 1999).]
[This message has been edited by magnum .44 (edited 17 September 1999).]
- Joined
- Jul 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,409
Hi Don!
Magnum and Mayor both have good points on the heat treatment. I personally belive that the heat treatment is the heart of a blade.
Hi-tech steels should be handled by professional heat treaters, and the good steel/poor treatment, poor steel/good treatment is a fact.
Often times folks refer to "heat treating" as simply hardening and tempering. There are several other processes that are just as important for high performance blades. Normalizing relives internal stresses caused by the forging process, and annealing serves to refine grain structure, and even an interupted quench during the forging process has benifits with certain steels. There are a couple more things that the "Montana gang" does, but folks might not believe it if I told them. I will say this.....Timing is everything.
http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey
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Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Magnum and Mayor both have good points on the heat treatment. I personally belive that the heat treatment is the heart of a blade.
Hi-tech steels should be handled by professional heat treaters, and the good steel/poor treatment, poor steel/good treatment is a fact.
Often times folks refer to "heat treating" as simply hardening and tempering. There are several other processes that are just as important for high performance blades. Normalizing relives internal stresses caused by the forging process, and annealing serves to refine grain structure, and even an interupted quench during the forging process has benifits with certain steels. There are a couple more things that the "Montana gang" does, but folks might not believe it if I told them. I will say this.....Timing is everything.
http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey
------------------
Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"
- Joined
- Apr 19, 1999
- Messages
- 3,560
You are getting close Don but you left out one important variable ....intended use.
Once the intended use is determined the proper grind can be selected, then the steel and lastly a proper heat treat program for that steel to give the intended properties to the blade so it can do the job.
Often one steel can be used in several different knives buy attention must be paid to heat treat specs and blade design in particular.
------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
Once the intended use is determined the proper grind can be selected, then the steel and lastly a proper heat treat program for that steel to give the intended properties to the blade so it can do the job.
Often one steel can be used in several different knives buy attention must be paid to heat treat specs and blade design in particular.
------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
- Joined
- Sep 1, 1999
- Messages
- 259
Does anyone know who can give 01 steel a super elastic temper? This can't be done in a furnace, because of the effect of ambient temperature on the holding fixture, but was evidently done in open forges. I have notes taken in the 40's that explain the process in great detail. When properly done, the steel flexes like a clock spring and springs back to original shape without permanent distortion. Obviously, this is for special purposes.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 1999
- Messages
- 259
Does anyone know who can give 01 steel a super elastic temper? This can't be done in a furnace, because of the effect of ambient temperature on the holding fixture, but was evidently done in open forges. I have notes taken in the 40's that explain the process in great detail. When properly done, the steel flexes like a clock spring and springs back to original shape without permanent distortion. Obviously, this is for special purposes.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 1999
- Messages
- 1,110
cryo treatment is only neccesary on high chromium steels. d-2 is a good steel to use, it can be used in large knives, but also can be used in small knives becuase it holds an edge well.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 1999
- Messages
- 259
.44 Magnum, maybe you'll understand me. I want a super elastic thrusting blade on the general pattern of an Applegate/Fairbairn
to carry on my pistol belt behind my 1911 holster. (I only carry a Parabellum for ceremonial purposes) It will be a one purpose blade; not for opening gasoline drums, but for personal contact only.
I have used cryo treatment on high speed steel inserts on paper knives and on chrome moly revolver parts. It is not necessary on a thrusting weapon which is full spring temper and Super Elastic.
None of the current knifemakers even know how to make a super elastic blade, I have just found out. It has to bend almost double and come back to normal without any distortion.
I have notes I took from a lecture in the 40's by a Professor who studied blades, and found the formula in an old book on top Toledo blade makers. I know how to do it, but I lack an open top forge, which is essential to the process.
Now what? Do you want to try making one? I'm a Pistolsmith, not a knifemaker.
to carry on my pistol belt behind my 1911 holster. (I only carry a Parabellum for ceremonial purposes) It will be a one purpose blade; not for opening gasoline drums, but for personal contact only.
I have used cryo treatment on high speed steel inserts on paper knives and on chrome moly revolver parts. It is not necessary on a thrusting weapon which is full spring temper and Super Elastic.
None of the current knifemakers even know how to make a super elastic blade, I have just found out. It has to bend almost double and come back to normal without any distortion.
I have notes I took from a lecture in the 40's by a Professor who studied blades, and found the formula in an old book on top Toledo blade makers. I know how to do it, but I lack an open top forge, which is essential to the process.
Now what? Do you want to try making one? I'm a Pistolsmith, not a knifemaker.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 1999
- Messages
- 1,110
i've seen a knife made for cmt( chromium, molybendenum, tungsten.) it will cut chips of of an anvil. i'll bend pretty far, but costs $20 something dollars per inch. i'll get back to you when i find the maker.