Maxamet

Blues

Blues

hovering overhead
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So, you old hands that have been carrying and using your Maxamet knives, I was wondering if any of you have experienced any negative consequences from maintaining the knives on Spyderco ceramic...whether then bench stones or Sharpmaker?

I recently took possession of a Para 3 which came pretty darn sharp but for one spot on the edge that was catching on phone book paper.

Not wanting to do a full sharpening, I just took it to the medium Spyderco bench stone and gave it a few licks on both sides and now it's slicing cleanly in both directions with a nicely aggressive edge.

I actually had to go back to the medium bench stone as I think stropping on 1 micron diamond paste actually degraded the edge. (Probably my fault due to poor technique, but whatever...)

Anyway, any issues with edge degradation or carbide tear out due to routine maintenance on the Sharpmaker or ceramic bench stones between actual sharpening on diamond, (bonded or plate)?

(I've watched Shawn and Michael Christy's videos enough to where I can narrate them...so it's not like I haven't done my due diligence. :p)
 
Thanks, Darby. I hear widely varying opinions / points of view about the damage which may result from ceramics...which are my preferred bench stones for quick and easy maintenance. No water needed, good feedback, no muss, no fuss...and no ragged edges. (Bonded diamond would help with the ragged edges.)

I'd rather not break out the diamonds until I felt the need to actually do a more intensive job...unless using the ceramic led to issues, in which case I'd just bite the bullet. (I've got plenty of diamond hones laying about.)
 
Aren’t ceramics hard enough to polish up the carbides? I didnt think ceramics caused carbide tear out. Correct me if Im wrong.
 
115Italian said:
Aren’t ceramics hard enough to polish up the carbides? I didnt think ceramics caused carbide tear out. Correct me if Im wrong.
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My understanding is that they're hard enough to shape the steel matrix that contains the carbides, but not hard enough to cut and shape the vanadium (and possibly other?) carbides within the matrix. Thus when the steel is abraded at the edge, it could lead to potential issues as the carbides are exposed and potentially dug out.

My hope is that a few strokes every now and again on ceramic won't be self defeating...but reports vary in this regard.
 
Blues said:
My understanding is that they're hard enough to shape the steel matrix that contains the carbides, but not hard enough to cut and shape the vanadium (and possibly other?) carbides within the matrix. Thus when the steel is abraded at the edge, it could lead to potential issues as the carbides are exposed and potentially dug out.

My hope is that a few strokes every now and again on ceramic won't be self defeating...but reports vary in this regard.
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Wow. Didnt know that. I use a ceramic to finish my sharpening process. Hope im not doing damage.
 
115Italian said:
Wow. Didnt know that. I use a ceramic to finish my sharpening process. Hope im not doing damage.
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Worst case scenario is that you'll just have to sharpen back some if you notice degradation.

Hopefully we'll get some good info from the experts so that this thread can be useful going forward.
 
Your gonna want to use something that can cut the Vanadium. Diamonds and cbn. If your gonna use ceramic it's gonna load up fast and it's not gonna cut those carbides. So it could take quite a while.

I was using the ceramic with s90v and was getting chipping. After using diamond stones and strops I don't have that issue anymore. Not sure I can explain it.

Check out @DeadboxHero and his channel on yt. He sharpens maxamet successfully on all sorts of bonded diamond and cbn stones with a diamond strop for best results I've ever seen, and I've got a maxamet mule and para3.
 
I decided to hit the edge with the 1" x 6" Venev bonded diamond hone in 1200 / 2000 (FEPA-F) grit.

Just gave it a few licks on each side, staying on the factory bevel as closely as I could.

Edge feels (subjectively) slightly more aggressive and sticky as compared to the finish off the medium Spyderco ceramic bench stone.

In any case, it's plenty sharp enough for anything I'll ever do with this knife since I'm not afflicted with the bevel polishing syndrome.

(At least not yet. :p)
 
I usually set my bevel with a DMT 325 or 600 and then debur with the Spyderco Medium. I have done this with S90V, S110V, K390, 10V and Maxamet and never had an issue.

I think trying to remove stock with ceramics on these high alloy steels may cause issues but deburring and microbeveling with them doesn’t seem to give me any trouble.

There is a thread in the maintenance subforum with great pics of the actual carbide tearout issue. You can clearly see that the diamonds abrade the carbides while ceramic stones abrade the steel around them and sometimes plow them through the matrix. This is why I think deburring and slight microbeveling with ceramics isn’t a big issue but that heavy stock removal could be.

It is also why it is possible that the medium stone (15 micron) does fine. It is still coarse enough to cut the carbides right out of the matrix. When you try to go to the fine and ultrafine ceramics you run into being unable to cut the carbides themselves so progress is slow and the carbides either tear out or get displaced.
 
Makes sense, Darby. I've been using the ceramics on S90V for years, by way of example. My first, a custom from Kit Carson built for me in the late 90's, and also a neck knife made for me by Darrel Ralph which I wear daily.

Touching up with the medium ceramic bench stone seems to work just fine. (It even worked fine on the Maxamet edge which was already sharp but had that one spot I mentioned that needed to be abraded so it wouldn't tear the phone book paper.)

So, I'm inclined to agree with your take just based on my experience with hard steels up to S90V and the like.

I noticed the other day in Michael Christy's video that he mentioned that a blade finished on Spyderco Ultra-Fine ceramic vs. one finished on diamond, only cut a few inches less cardboard after a test...and while the other could still whittle hair, the one finished on ceramic was just under hair whittling.

In the real world that's more than enough performance for the likes of me who will never wring out every last bit of performance...or aesthetics for that matter.
 
bearfacedkiller said:
I like Christy’s videos, some of my favorites on YouTube. What steel was he using in that video you mentioned? A high vanadium one?
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I've been watching his videos lately on Maxamet, Cru-Wear and Rex 45.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe he was talking about Maxamet. Let me see if I can find it and I'll post the link.

ETA: My brain is mush right now and I can't recall right now which of the videos it was specifically. But yes, it was a high vanadium steel, (or Maxamet), and he was looking to see if the potential loss of carbides via finishing on Spyderco Ultra Fine ceramic would impact the performance of the blade in cardboard cutting, (maybe wood as well), and then checking if it would whittle hair.

While the knife made a dozen or so less cuts through the cardboard, it was a meaningless difference...and it was still near hair whittling.

Christy's takeaway was that he didn't feel that finishing on the ceramic, (as opposed to diamond), was detrimental in any significant way.
 
I think I found it and I think it was S110V.

He goes through a full progression of diamond strops after each stone. I would be curious to see him stop once time on the Spyderco UF and the other time on the DMT EEF and compare them without the stropping. Hmmm....
 
Thanks, Darby, that was probably it. (And I agree. I was disappointed that he went back to the strops instead of testing right off the "stone".)

I've been watching videos on the steels I recently picked up during my current run of new Spyderco purchases. S110V, Maxamet, Cru-Wear and Rex 45.

Well done, my friend.
 
I used 120 grit ceramic belt to reshape the edge, then went theough my grits on Aluminum Oxide up to 1200 grit. Note this is on my grinder.

Finished on Spyderco UF with no issues.

Now maintaining on medium and fine stones and cant complain. Maxamet however does seem to slip on the ceramics, but given the estimated hardness and chemistry that is what I would expect.
 
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Thanks, Marthinus for sharing your experience with us. Every data point is useful. :thumbsup:
 
I finish all steels on ceramics (from 1200 grit onwards) and never noticed a problem. The Maxamet I did with it still performs great.
 
Thanks, SV-97. So far, the ceramics are holding their own (in the finishing / maintenance department). :thumbsup:

I'm happy to see this as they've been my "go-to" solution for so many years and are just so convenient.
 
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