MBC Rating?

Quy4n8 · Dec 3, 2004

I know it means Martial Bladecraft Rated, but what does that mean in concrete terms? It will stand up to ? pounds of negative pressure or lateral force? Does anyone here have an idea of what sort of testing is done to come up with this rating, or is it simply a different way to market a knife? Thanks in advance for any input. Richard

loki88 · Dec 3, 2004

The blade , and lock is subjected to a force of 100 LBS/inch of blade. If it complies with this test it gets the MBC (or heavy duty) approved rating. So a 4 inch folder will survive a 400 lbs weight on the blade, without the lock or blade collapsing (although i don't think lateral forces). Spyderco does have very specific testing equipment for testing of lock failure and blade strenght, they are frequently asked by major knife manufacturers to test their own blades. Because of the fact that Mike Janich left Spyderco the "MBC" rating is not longer used frequently, i believe Spyderco switched to light-medium-heavy duty strenght.

Michael Janich · Dec 3, 2004

Dear Loki and Richard:

I think the actual MBC rating was 200 pounds of pressure per inch of blade length to arrive at a figure in inch/pounds. Spyderco would have to be the final authority on that, though.

Also, I don't know that my departure from Spyderco changed their approach to their MBC product line in any substantial way. They are continuing to do things the way they always did and we still enjoy a cordial relationship.

Stay safe,

KeithAM · Dec 3, 2004

Spyderco's current online catelog refers to several models with MBC rated locks -- Lil' Temp, Chinook II, Gunting, and Yojimbo. I also recall Sal or Carlos mentioning at some point that it's 200 lbs per blade inch.

Franco G · Dec 3, 2004

Dear Richard and Loki,

A new Manix has MBC rated lock - actually the same as a Chinook II. This is confirmed to me by Sal in some thread.

Dear Mike,
although you left officially the Spyderco's MBC team nothing changed. Your spirit is still there - I never had an impression that you polite answers are results of your position only. It is simply your personality. We learned a lot. Best regards.

Franco

Quy4n8 · Dec 3, 2004

Thanks for your replies. That tells me exactly what I wanted to know.

Richard

loki88 · Dec 3, 2004

my mistake, mixed up kilo's ( what we use here) for lbs (pounds), 1 kilo is 2 lbs, right?

mr Janich, the gone MBC forum is still a void in the new Spyderco website, do u have a forum that is directed towards MBC, i believe Spyderco still "owns" the right for the nomination "MBC", is that right?

Thank u anyway for the great products u gave us thru your collaboration with Spyderco, i still carry my Ronin everyday!

faramir · Dec 3, 2004

loki88 said:
my mistake, mixed up kilo's ( what we use here) for lbs (pounds), 1 kilo is 2 lbs, right?

Roughly. According to Google (try "1 lb in kg", without quotation marks) 1 pound = 0.45359237 kilograms

HoB · Dec 3, 2004

I would love to know what lateral forces a knife like the Manix or Yojimbo will endure. Does anybody know?

klattman · Dec 3, 2004

loki88 said:
The blade , and lock is subjected to a force of 100 LBS/inch of blade. If it complies with this test it gets the MBC (or heavy duty) approved rating. So a 4 inch folder will survive a 400 lbs weight on the blade, without the lock or blade collapsing (although i don't think lateral forces). Spyderco does have very specific testing equipment for testing of lock failure and blade strenght, they are frequently asked by major knife manufacturers to test their own blades. Because of the fact that Mike Janich left Spyderco the "MBC" rating is not longer used frequently, i believe Spyderco switched to light-medium-heavy duty strenght.

So if this is to measure a lock, why not quote the inch-lbs of torque? In the example above the 1" blade LOCK only has to withstand 100in-lbs, but the 4 inch blade has to withstand 1600 in-lbs. This all depends on where you press on the blade. My guess is that the 4" blade must requre the same 100lbs out at 4", or 400in-lbs.

So do the numbers above assume that the lbs rating _is_ really inch-pounds (i.e. the test is done 1 " from the pivot). Then the 1 inch folder is required to withstand 100 in-lbs and the 4 inch folder is required to withstand 400 in-lbs. So the lock on a longer blade must withstand more torque... is this the correct interpretation?

And is it 100 inlb or 200?

Thomas Linton · Dec 3, 2004

Oh if we could only get load applied to a blade at a uniform 1" out.

Check me on this. Won't the longer blade exert more pressure on the lock with the same load at the point due to leverage?

Sal Glesser · Dec 4, 2004

Spyderco created the term "MBC" to mean Martial Blade Craft in an effort to eliminate the term "knife fighting" within the knife community.

Close asociation with James Keating, Bob Taylor, Bram Frank, Massad Ayoob, Michael debethencourt, Kelly Worden and Michael Janich expanded our knowledge and interest in the MBC concept.

After learning about "passing" and other "moves" in MBC, Spyderco felt that a minimum amount of lock strength would be applied to any knives that we would make with these esteemed gentleman's names on them, or designs created to meet MBC needs. We felt it was our obligation to our customer and our respect for the MBC practitioners.

We established lock strength standards for Spyderco products and build dedicated equipment to test these standards. This is done regularly.

Michael's move to Masters of Defense is not a problem for Spyderco. The union is a good one and I'm sure they will do great things together. Michael is top drawer in all areas.

The absence of the MBC forum on the new Spyderco site forum is one of moderation. Michael was there with the knowledge and was excellent in his responses. Bram was often there sharing knowledge as well.

With Michael moving on and Bram having his own forum, the interest and ability to moderate was in question. We have had an offer for a moderator that Michael feels can do a good job. Now it's a question of demand. If the demand is there, we will re-establlish the MBC forum and invite all interested to participate.

We're just moving slowly primarily because we're all pretty busy at Spyderco right now.

sal

Michael Janich · Dec 4, 2004

Thanks, Sal, for the kind words.

With regard to the leverage issue, the rating is based on blade length (200 lbs. per inch of blade length). The actual point at which the pressure is applied is based on this. If the best place to apply pressure is 3 inches from the pivot on a 4-inch blade, the force applied is increased accordingly to replicate the leverage that would result from applying force right at the tip. As such, the standards remain the same.

Stay safe,

klattman · Dec 5, 2004

Michael Janich said:
Thanks, Sal, for the kind words.

With regard to the leverage issue, the rating is based on blade length (200 lbs. per inch of blade length). The actual point at which the pressure is applied is based on this. If the best place to apply pressure is 3 inches from the pivot on a 4-inch blade, the force applied is increased accordingly to replicate the leverage that would result from applying force right at the tip. As such, the standards remain the same.

Stay safe,

To summarize, then, a 1" knife requires 200 inlbs of torque. And a 4" knife requires 800inlbs of torque to break the lock to get that rating.

so...if you test the 1" blade at 1" you use 200lbs, and if you test the 4" blade at 4 inches, you use 200lbs, but if you test the 4" blade at 1", you would use 800lbs.

HoB · Dec 6, 2004

That's what I get out of this, though it seems impossible to me to apply a force at 4'' of a 4'' blade, you would have to tie the weight to a point. I guess this is also the reason why the Dodo, overall a much smaller knife than the Chinook, still achieves MBC rating.