Medium Rat Folder

Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
922
If this sounds stupid feel free to tell me that. I love the Rat folders. I carry my Rat II everywhere with me for the last year or year and a half since I got it. The only knife that spends more time with me than my Rat II is my Vic Super Tinker. I also really love the Rat 1 although it is a bigger knife than I usually like for daily carry. I take it camping and hiking when a bigger blade is a better option.

Although the Rat II was become my constant carry knife, I do have one small complaint when compared my previous ideal carry knives. My two favorite EDC knives before I got my Rat II were the large Buck Vantage Select and the Kershaw Whirlwind. Both of those knives have a lot in common with the Rat knives. Both have nylon handle scales over liners with a liner lock. The Whirlwind has nested rather than full liners. Both have a similar blade shape to the Rats with what I would call a "trailing point" tip and a lot of belly. The Rat excels over the other two in blade grind with its full flat grind. It also has a better pocket clip setup. The Whirlwind only allows tip down which I don't prefer and the Vantage's deep carry clip can make it a little difficult to retrieve sometimes. Where the Rat falls "short" of the other two is in length. Both the Whirlwind and the Vantage are 4.5 inches closed with a 3.25 inch blade. For me, this is the ideal carry size for a knife. I don't have overly large hands. My hands are tight in a size medium glove but loose in a large, so I kind of ride the line between the two sizes.

I'd be very interested in seeing a medium-sized Rat that is longer than the Rat II, shorter than the Rat 1, and also retains some of the slimness that makes the Rat II such an easy knife to carry in pocket. I sometimes see posts like this from others and think that an extra size of an existing line is unneeded, but I think the Rat line has to be one of the most profitable folder line-ups on the current market and might justify an additional "medium" size. Also, if you make the new medium sized Rat assisted, it might appease the few people out there who want an assisted Rat II.

Just some thoughts to consider.
 
Hey Max,

I think since the two knives are only half an inch apart in blade size (3.5 inches and 3 inches), this might not be very practical for us. There could be a lot of expenses going into a knife that might not sell well, or might only sell well by taking sales from our existing knives. That doesn't rule it out completely and we can look into it, but that's an early impression that comes to my mind. We want to make sure we are making people the best knives they could possibly have, so sales aren't the only consideration, but they are a big one.

Let me know your thoughts on it. My thinking is we'd want to do something else to differentiate the knife from the RAT 1 and RAT 2, otherwise I'm not sure there's enough appeal for a 3.25 inch RAT. Maybe I'm completely off base for thinking that, I'd love to hear your thoughts and anyone else's.
 
Hey Max,

Let me know your thoughts on it. My thinking is we'd want to do something else to differentiate the knife from the RAT 1 and RAT 2, otherwise I'm not sure there's enough appeal for a 3.25 inch RAT. Maybe I'm completely off base for thinking that, I'd love to hear your thoughts and anyone else's.

Even if it turns out to not be feasible, I really appreciate your taking the time to ask for my thoughts and gather more info. It speaks volumes of Ontario as a company.

I know the blade lengths of the RAT 1 & 2 are only a half inch apart, but the size difference feels larger than that in-hand to me. This is because the RAT 2 is so much more than just a shorter RAT 1. It shrinks the size dimensions in every way, not just length. In addition to the length, the RAT 1 is a beefier folder that is both thicker and wider (both open and closed) than the RAT 2.

I'm looking for something longer than the RAT 2 that maintains its slimmer, more elegant profile. As I think more about it, it doesn't have to be a version of the RAT that would either sell poorly or detract from sales of the current models. It could be a completely new model if Ontario were willing to consider going that route. Here is my basic wish list without specifically making it a RAT folder.

-Handle length between 4.25 and 4.5.
-Blade length right around 3.25
-I'd prefer it have the TAO assist mechanism, but I know that isn't popular with everyone
-Textured nylon or G-10 scales
-Full flat grind blade
-Slimmer profile like the RAT 2; despite the length difference between RAT 1 & 2 being only 0.5 inches, they feel as in size different as a Buck 110 and a Case Trapper
-AUS-8 blade steel is fine by me, but my favorite steel to be available on a Taiwan folder is ATS-34 (not sure if this is available locally in Taiwan anymore as no manufacturer has used it recently to my knowledge).
-One of my favorite features of the RAT folders is how "round" the design is. There aren't many hard angles or corners to the handle. It's all flowing curves. It's one of the features that makes it so comfortable in hand
 
I LOVE the Rat 1. I like the Rat 2. I don't know if this brings up old wounds, but I really prefer the ESEE Zancudo to the RAT 2 mostly because of the shape of the handle. The Rat 1's handle design is great. The Rat 2's handle design seems to be for someone with 1/3rd less hand than the Rat 1. The Zancudo has a different shape, which is much more comfortable and secure in use (at least for me). If the Rat 2 had better designed handle ergonomics (although it might no look as tacticool) I would use it much more often.

Please don't ever stop producing the Rat line. :D
 
I would take a rat 2 with a slightly bigger area for the index finger. Mine feels way to cramped and my hands aren't huge.
 
I have the opposite opinion from Scott, I love my Rat 2 and like the Rat 1, I also much prefer the Rat 2 over the Zancudo. I would be in favour of something with the quality and features of the Rats in a 3.25" blade. Even though there is only a .5" difference, the overall size difference seem huge between the 1 and the 2. I never pocket the Rat 1 because it's just too big.
 
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